TATW Unofficial patch 4.0

[leo.civil.uefs]

Anyone has a hint about a possible reason for the game messing the music, making campaign music from a faction playing in another faction's campaign even if the descr_sounds_music.txt file is not set up like this?I already extracted and repacked using the .txt files the way I want but for some reason everything ingame is messed.
Dwarves are playing Rohan music!

EDIT:


well. I think there is no bug at all
its just that the 'Mobilize" entry in the music.txt file cannot be culture specific
music there will play for every faction
what a pity

[Araval]

Beware, I have heard music could get messed up in such way when the music.dat gets too big.
El Monstero29 found out it should not exceed 1,5 GB: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...1#post15504722

well. I think there is no bug at all
its just that the 'Mobilize" entry in the music.txt file cannot be culture specific
music there will play for every faction
what a pity

Are you completely sure music works everywhere else as it should?

EDIT:

So if a fort in a region controlled by the player is occupyied by an enemy army, and an ally army attack and conquer this fort, the fort becomes unacessible for the player? Is that?

See here about the allied fort ownership problem and solution: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...3-2-compatible

[Lusitanio]

Never heard about this problem.
So if a fort in a region controlled by the player is occupyied by an enemy army, and an ally army attack and conquer this fort, the fort becomes unacessible for the player? Is that?

Yes. The same happens if you conquer a settlement and make peace with the enemy faction. If they still controled forts in the region that you conquered, they will continue to belong to the other faction.

[leo.civil.uefs]

Beware, I have heard music could get messed up in such way when the music.dat gets too big.
El Monstero29 found out it should not exceed 1,5 GB: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...1#post15504722

My music.dat has less than 300 mb.

Are you completely sure music works everywhere else as it should?

Not completly sure but so far yes.
By th way, I totally forgot, whats the purpose of descr_sounds_music_types.txt? Do I really need to edit it?




Thanks for the info, guys. Im progressing and already fixed all the problems that were getting me stuck.
I think 1 more month is enough and then comes the release.

[leo.civil.uefs]

I've filled the entire middle earth with wonders to be used in my new Ruins Feature. I used the resources (hardcoded limit is 27), and I still have 7 beeing used as normal resources.

Since TATW has no merchants (and they were the characters that made strat map interaction with resources possible), these resources are there now only for: increase trade and eye candy in strat map. Its true that some buildings and units depend on the presence of specific resources in the region to be made.

Im considering removing ALL RESOURCES from the game (and have them available to be used as wonders or something else).
Except for one, wich I would call "trade goods" or something like this, and it would replace all the former resources. To make a region more rich, I could simply repeat this "trade goods" resource, 2, 3 or how many I want.

Its icon would be invisible in the strat map so it could be used for any region, any race, and this would actually make more sense than "grains" inside Mordor, or orcs trading silk and fruits after conquering a region with such resources.

So this "trade goods" would be a generic trade resource that could be placed in every region, how many as necessary to make the region more rich or more poor, it would work in the trade system between settlements, and it would be invisble in the strat map.

This would make sense in my next release since I want every strat map model to be interactive, either showing lore tooltip text or indicating the place of a custom tile.
As for buildings and units that depend on certain resources to be made, I would simply change this specific resource for a hidden_resource.

This idea firstly appeared absurd but now that I meditated enough about it, it seems to be the way Im taking.
I also think that having some icons that are interactive and that loads custom tiles in the strat map (ruins/wonders), and others that dont, would make the gameplay confusig. I really want every icon in the strat map to really mean something in battlemap.

And dont worry about the strat map becomming empty and boring, actually, you've never seen anything as dynamic and eye candy as the stuff Im about to release. Trust me, the strat map is mroe alive than ever now. Its just that you wont see mines and farms anymore if I really end up taking this decision.

Anyway I always like to hear you guys opinions, to avoid possible engine problems in the game with my changes, of even to make me realize how absurd my ideas are.

[Lord Baal]

On the lastest CoW mod, BoET they made resources into villages and towns... more villages and towns on the map equal to more wealth and the eye candy is nice.

[leo.civil.uefs]

On the lastest CoW mod, BoET they made resources into villages and towns... more villages and towns on the map equal to more wealth and the eye candy is nice.

Yeah I've already decided and Im doing something similar, with the plus that eash of these location will be a custom tile so that battles there will really load village models.

[Lord Baal]

with the plus that eash of these location will be a custom tile so that battles there will really load village models.

[Araval]

I don't remember if you've aready made something with iron, silver and gold but the income from these depends on your investment to the mines and how good mines you can build in your settlement level and how good mines your faction is able to build. Building mines can give your governor the GoodMiner trait that can give you additional income too.

[leo.civil.uefs]

Well I kept 5 tradable resources, including one mine wich I caled ORE and will replace iron, silver and gold.
Without merchants, I really dont see how all these resources help in immersion. On the other hand, lore custom tiles all around the strat map are really interesting... and we have a lot of them now. So the trade system is kept, and these resources will be interactive in the strat map since battles over them will load custom tiles.

[leo.civil.uefs]

Uploading 2.6 final version

[leo.civil.uefs]

OK, 2.6 final version is out.

Check out the campaign map and all its new features, observe the new usage of resource models as wonders of middle earth and then realize that the majority of them are interactive and has custom tiles for battles over them.


A side note:

It seems like a miracle happened. The time of passing turns magically reduced from an avarage 45 seconds to 15 seconds. No, its not that script bug when the game is not reading any script and the turn passing time is like 1 second. No, the scripts seem to be working fine. Might be something related with the adition of a new faction (a ghost faction used for the ruins feature) and its position in descr_strat.txt. Mystery or not, its a very welcome improvement.

[Araval]

Congratz!

[Lord Baal]

Congratulations and thanks!

[Veteraan]

OK, 2.6 final version is out.

Great!

A side note:

It seems like a miracle happened. The time of passing turns magically reduced from an avarage 45 seconds to 15 seconds. No, its not that script bug when the game is not reading any script and the turn passing time is like 1 second. No, the scripts seem to be working fine. Might be something related with the adition of a new faction (a ghost faction used for the ruins feature) and its position in descr_strat.txt. Mystery or not, its a very welcome improvement.

Intriguing

[leo.civil.uefs]

2.7 changelog is available and the next release is in full production, though it will probably contain nothing but fixes and tweaks.

I know only a half dozen of you guys are my hardcore fans who really play my sub-mod but anyone willing to help could download it and play some turns to find if you spot any bug.

[Flo78]

I would love to test it but unfortunately i cant extract the 2.6.rar file with 7-zip.

edit:
Ok no it works, going to test a dwarf campaign

[hoom]

Very long time lurker (lurking around TWC since Rome1) but I've registered specifically to say a hearty thanks for your continuing work Leo

Its a bit of a heresy but IMO King_Kong laid a foundation similar to Civ V base game, the basic game was good but a bit sparse.
Your work has filled Third Age out into a true epic like the Civ V DLCs did for that game.

I honestly haven't got round to playing the newer versions much but do look forward to getting back into it soonish.


I have some questions/comments/suggestions (intended with greatest respect! apologies if any of these are dumb/you disagree):
Does the recent map/settlement changes affect FPoE -> Arnor transition?
From recollection you used to need to build up Weathertop to a max city with growth boosted by one of the main characters as Governor to get enough population for it to trigger.
Other than that I do very much like the idea of this change.


While you're reworking the map, I've always felt the East part of the Shire & area around Bree need work.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A bunch of the divergence from lore was done to spread out populated areas/balance/to help AI as I understand it but there's a bunch thats not great lorewise & this could be an opportunity to make improvements.

In the Eastern part of the Shire should be Buckland with capital Bucklebury & maybe Brandy Hall as a fort? (combined as a castle? It was notably fortified by Shire standards)



Moving East Staddle in lore is right next to Bree, there are also Archet & Combe close-by (could be farms/resources for Bree?)


I never felt happy about Barrow Downs being a populated town, probably should be just a couple of the new Ruins & make a couple of small towns elsewhere?
Bucklebury would contribute & maybe Archet/Combe, could probably still be spread out a bit but Staddle is too far from Bree currently.

I did find one map that puts a town named Andrath a bit South of the current Barrow Downs town. (just off the above map)
technically Andrath is just the name of the Greenway road between Barrow Downs & South Downs but if we do need a town in that area I think Andrath is a more acceptable name.

To the West, Elostirion is the name of the tallest of the 3 Towers so it technically shouldn't be a separate town away from the towers as it currently is.
The Towers should probably be a Fort or Castle controlled directly by High Elves. (though certainly I see the value in forcing a battle there)

IMO there shouldn't really be separate Mithlond, Harlond & Forlond, just the two which are then collectively called Mithlond (the grey havens).
But its a thing that Tolkein was pretty vague about, the official maps are unclear & it really helps the High Elves economy so I can live with it.


I note there is a Cave custom tile, would it be possible now to reinstate the links between OotMM towns with that custom tile all along -> fix that issue where it just had flat terrain? If I recall that was the original plan?
IMO Orcs really need to be able to move reinforcements directly between their towns & there is lore that the OotMM had tunnels/paths through the mountains.


I agree with the removal of most of those far north Dwarf mines/towns.
There was really too much & yet not enough going on up there, just gave the Dwarves a bunch of free economy.

Contrary that, as beautiful as they are I feel that the Orocarni Dwarves cramp Rhun too much, in the bits of campaign I've played since they were added Rhun has been a pale shadow of its former threat.
IMO there should be something like twice as much distance east of the Sea of Rhun before reaching the Orocarni.
Maybe just cut out the bottom part of the mountains & couple of cities, replaced with plains cities for Rhun to take?

Also what was the reason for the dull 'new Rhun city textures'? If I recall they originally had prominent golden domes which fitted with KKs Dragon/Blue Wizard lore.


I understand you had a hard time with making the one we have but is there any chance of a rework of Rivendell?
Its a location that tends to have very important battles & its got really glitchy deployment zones, units get bad pathing issues & it needs a place where the defender can put archers to massacre enemies as they cross the bridge.
I want to stick archers above the zig-zag infront of the house, preferably make that cliff a wall (like you have for some of the Dwarf cities) or insert some of those aerial paths, maybe make the house towers functional arrow towers?
With all your recent custom settlements & custom tile work I feel like this may be a time when you can get a better outcome.


I think there were a couple of other things I wanted to ask/suggest but can't remember now so I'll finish with a reiteration of my thanks for your excellent & hard work on this

[leo.civil.uefs]

Very long time lurker (lurking around TWC since Rome1) but I've registered specifically to say a hearty thanks for your continuing work Leo

Its a bit of a heresy but IMO King_Kong laid a foundation similar to Civ V base game, the basic game was good but a bit sparse.
Your work has filled Third Age out into a true epic like the Civ V DLCs did for that game.

Thanks for this. Gezzz... since Rome 1? It makes line one decade and a half.

Does the recent map/settlement changes affect FPoE -> Arnor transition?
From recollection you used to need to build up Weathertop to a max city with growth boosted by one of the main characters as Governor to get enough population for it to trigger.

I'm very solid when it comes to Changelog information of my sub-mod. I find it extremly impportant not only for me but for players. If there was any change to the Arnor Restorarion script, I would certainly include it in the changelog.

The answer is no, I did no change to the script, despite the fact that there are now more regions in eriador region, you don't need to conquer these new regions to trigger the restorarion script. All the regions I added are discreet generic villages, because I don't want to offend the Lore.
If by half of the campaign you developed these regions so much that they became large cities, well that's a possibility that videogames bring, as well as playing as Mordor and conquering the entire Middle Earth no matter how much this is different from what is in the books.
My submod delivers a lore accurate Middle Earth by the beggining of the campaign.
PS: I do the best I can, I'm not a lore master.

I think you're confused about weathertop. Since 3.2 it is a unique settlement and it cannot be upgraded. In my latest version, the settlement and its region are still there but the abandoned tower itself is now a custom tile, not a settlement anymore.

While you're reworking the map, I've always felt the East part of the Shire & area around Bree need work.
A bunch of the divergence from lore was done to spread out populated areas/balance/to help AI as I understand it but there's a bunch thats not great lorewise & this could be an opportunity to make improvements.

In the Eastern part of the Shire should be Buckland with capital Bucklebury & maybe Brandy Hall as a fort? (combined as a castle? It was notably fortified by Shire standards)



Moving East Staddle in lore is right next to Bree, there are also Archet & Combe close-by (could be farms/resources for Bree?)




Bucklebury would contribute & maybe Archet/Combe, could probably still be spread out a bit but Staddle is too far from Bree currently.

This is really complex stuff. As we can see from these maps, implementing something like this would require a rearrangement in the strat map scale, the distance between the settlements etc. With the current scale we have for the campaign strat map, I dont think we can have so many details in an area that would be too small. Besides, I dont feel myself competent enough for daring that kind of change, specially because, as I said, Im not a lore master. Modifications like this would imply in changes in AI behavior and that could bring catastrophic consequences to the game, maybe even ruining the campaign.
Besides, thats the kind of task that is necessarily demanding and takes too long, definitely NOT something I'm willing to do now. But I will remember this in the future, who knows...

I never felt happy about Barrow Downs being a populated town, probably should be just a couple of the new Ruins & make a couple of small towns elsewhere?

I did find one map that puts a town named Andrath a bit South of the current Barrow Downs town. (just off the above map)
technically Andrath is just the name of the Greenway road between Barrow Downs & South Downs but if we do need a town in that area I think Andrath is a more acceptable name.

The tombs in the barrow downs are now a custom tile, and the setttlement just a village. As for the village name, maybe changing it is really a good suggestion, Im not sure.

The Towers should probably be a Fort or Castle controlled directly by High Elves. (though certainly I see the value in forcing a battle there)

It is now a custom tile, one of the new ruins feature.

I note there is a Cave custom tile, would it be possible now to reinstate the links between OotMM towns with that custom tile all along -> fix that issue where it just had flat terrain? If I recall that was the original plan?
IMO Orcs really need to be able to move reinforcements directly between their towns & there is lore that the OotMM had tunnels/paths through the mountains.

Don't you think this would result messy, repetitive unrealistical stuff? My custom tile caves are large caves with high ceilings, not tunnels. I really don't think this is a good idea. Underground paths would be a good idea if they could only be used by orcs, there is scripts around for this, but the only the player will end up using it (not the AI), and Im really not on that kind of "forced" feature.

Contrary that, as beautiful as they are I feel that the Orocarni Dwarves cramp Rhun too much, in the bits of campaign I've played since they were added Rhun has been a pale shadow of its former threat.
IMO there should be something like twice as much distance east of the Sea of Rhun before reaching the Orocarni.
Maybe just cut out the bottom part of the mountains & couple of cities, replaced with plains cities for Rhun to take?

Again the scale problem. Anyway now there is more settlements around Rhûn so they have more space to expand, also, in previous releases I made Rhûn more powerful by giving them more settlements at the start of the campaign, elevating King's purse and making their settlements more strong.

Also what was the reason for the dull 'new Rhun city textures'? If I recall they originally had prominent golden domes which fitted with KKs Dragon/Blue Wizard lore.

I never liked arriving in Rhûn to kill easterlings with my dwarves and getting the sensation I got on the wrong plane and ended up in Saudi Arabia.

KKs Dragon/Blue Wizard lore? What the hell is this?

I understand you had a hard time with making the one we have but is there any chance of a rework of Rivendell?
Its a location that tends to have very important battles & its got really glitchy deployment zones, units get bad pathing issues & it needs a place where the defender can put archers to massacre enemies as they cross the bridge.
I want to stick archers above the zig-zag infront of the house, preferably make that cliff a wall (like you have for some of the Dwarf cities) or insert some of those aerial paths, maybe make the house towers functional arrow towers?
With all your recent custom settlements & custom tile work I feel like this may be a time when you can get a better outcome.

You guys have no idea about how much I get constrained by the lore when modding, all the time.
Making small settlements so they dont defy the larger iconic lore ones. Trying to be as much loyal to both the books and the movies at the same time besides building functional settlements for gameplay in med2 engine etc.
My Rivendell is a movie version, its true, and I like it as it is. I've beeing modding it over my releases so it got more area to deploy armies but honestly, I dont like the idea of having it large, with deployable catwalks etc. I dont know... one thing I realized after these many years of modding is that immersion is more important than anything.



Thanks for this long and insightful post, be sure I always take opinions from you guys in my book of notes.

[Kurmanji]

Hello,

I tried to install 2.6 but it doesn't work for me. The autodelete application doesn't delete the files because he can't find them. (yes I gave permission to all users)
Is there a link to the 2.5 build available? Also can I use your textures and moedels formy own mod (ofcourse I will give you credits)?

As a last note campaigns do work and I wondered... Wouldn't it make sense to make Lorien a seperate faction? That way they can also have their elbereth units from the films.

Kind regards