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Thread: The Sekigahara Campaign - General Discussion

  1. #101
    Akaie's Avatar Sangi Ukon'e no Chūjō
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    Although they will most likely be tweaked, the main heraldry is done and thus I have finished my clan choices. In time, I'll reveal more.

    (Unless you're Erwin or Robin, don't worry about downloading the file attached to this post. Internal planning info and so on.)
    Last edited by Akaie; October 27, 2012 at 11:36 PM.

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  2. #102
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    I brought this up in another thread and thought I'd see what you guys think about this. I don't know what the unit rosters will look like for the mod, but in my humble opinion I think that Yari Ashigaru should be equipped with the pike that Oda Long Yari Ashigaru (the really long, straight bladed one) have because it is the most historically accurate one. The Jumonji Yari (sp?), the trident looking one, should be for samurai only imo, as it was a more expensive spear than the other type. So I'd exchange the normal yari for the samurai to the jumonji, and give all ashigaru the Oda Long Yari Ashigaru, for historical accuracy's sake.

    It's up to you guys of course, and I'll play the mod no matter what you decide!

  3. #103
    Akaie's Avatar Sangi Ukon'e no Chūjō
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    I have been thinking of things to detail, after all it has been some time since I posted Tadakatsu. This is merely because I was bogged down for two days and have since been too focused on the work to post examples. So I thought... let's discuss political alignment a bit more!


    Political Alignment: A General Guide
    (alt. "The Sekigahara Campaign's Political Alignment Game Mechanic For Dummies")

    From the small chunk of a screenshot, you would know that religion has been done away with, much like in ROTS or the Peninsular Campaign for N:TW. Instead of having well-rooted Buddhism, a single christian clan with the potentially for more converts, and the ever-annoying (unless you are them, of course) Ikko-ikki expansion, you are, regardless of what clan you start as, aligned with either the Toyotomi or Tokugawa.

    What makes the political alignment system more prominent is that each side has to interact with each other constantly, as there are Toyotomi and Tokugawa pockets scattered around Japan, as well as a more centralised block of political-specific factions. This means more clashes, more resistance, more total war!

    Naturally, all CAs takes on a political alignment system meant giving the player an agent dedicated to just that. Thus, I have created the "Tokugawa Monk" and the "Toyotomi Monk" (I didn't have much to work with there). They are much of the same thing, and are in turn pretty much the same as your standard vanilla monk. Their unique place in the campaign does not come from their lack of diversity, but rather how they will be used. It was so easy to have the religious zeal trait go ignored, unless you were christian. With this setup, you're going to want everything the monk has to offer, revolts and zeal alike.

    Ah! Revolts! What kind of a game doesn't allow for revolts. This is pretty straight forward. Toyotomi monk incites revolt? You'll see "Toyotomi Loyalists" pop up and try to take over the town-fort. Same goes for Tokugawa Monks and Tokugawa Loyalists.

    On top of this, I will make many balancing tweaks to make sure everyone has the tools they need to overcome this political alignment mechanic. I certainly won't make it a cake-walk, though .

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  4. #104
    Akaie's Avatar Sangi Ukon'e no Chūjō
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Nord View Post
    I brought this up in another thread and thought I'd see what you guys think about this. I don't know what the unit rosters will look like for the mod, but in my humble opinion I think that Yari Ashigaru should be equipped with the pike that Oda Long Yari Ashigaru (the really long, straight bladed one) have because it is the most historically accurate one. The Jumonji Yari (sp?), the trident looking one, should be for samurai only imo, as it was a more expensive spear than the other type. So I'd exchange the normal yari for the samurai to the jumonji, and give all ashigaru the Oda Long Yari Ashigaru, for historical accuracy's sake.

    It's up to you guys of course, and I'll play the mod no matter what you decide!
    Agreed. I actually remember noticing this some time ago. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to use the weapon with the Yari Ashigaru, as it would no doubt undermine CAs unit pack. Could be usable elsewhere, though. I'll get back to you on what I come up with, bearing your comment in mind .

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  5. #105
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Anton III View Post
    I have been thinking of things to detail, after all it has been some time since I posted Tadakatsu. This is merely because I was bogged down for two days and have since been too focused on the work to post examples. So I thought... let's discuss political alignment a bit more!


    Political Alignment: A General Guide
    (alt. "The Sekigahara Campaign's Political Alignment Game Mechanic For Dummies")

    From the small chunk of a screenshot, you would know that religion has been done away with, much like in ROTS or the Peninsular Campaign for N:TW. Instead of having well-rooted Buddhism, a single christian clan with the potentially for more converts, and the ever-annoying (unless you are them, of course) Ikko-ikki expansion, you are, regardless of what clan you start as, aligned with either the Toyotomi or Tokugawa.

    What makes the political alignment system more prominent is that each side has to interact with each other constantly, as there are Toyotomi and Tokugawa pockets scattered around Japan, as well as a more centralised block of political-specific factions. This means more clashes, more resistance, more total war!

    Naturally, all CAs takes on a political alignment system meant giving the player an agent dedicated to just that. Thus, I have created the "Tokugawa Monk" and the "Toyotomi Monk" (I didn't have much to work with there). They are much of the same thing, and are in turn pretty much the same as your standard vanilla monk. Their unique place in the campaign does not come from their lack of diversity, but rather how they will be used. It was so easy to have the religious zeal trait go ignored, unless you were christian. With this setup, you're going to want everything the monk has to offer, revolts and zeal alike.

    Ah! Revolts! What kind of a game doesn't allow for revolts. This is pretty straight forward. Toyotomi monk incites revolt? You'll see "Toyotomi Loyalists" pop up and try to take over the town-fort. Same goes for Tokugawa Monks and Tokugawa Loyalists.

    On top of this, I will make many balancing tweaks to make sure everyone has the tools they need to overcome this political alignment mechanic. I certainly won't make it a cake-walk, though .
    This sounds brilliant my friend, really, really looking forward to this now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anton III View Post
    Agreed. I actually remember noticing this some time ago. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to use the weapon with the Yari Ashigaru, as it would no doubt undermine CAs unit pack. Could be usable elsewhere, though. I'll get back to you on what I come up with, bearing your comment in mind .
    Oh yeah, the legal mumbo-jumbo, hadn't thought of that. We'll see about that I guess!

  6. #106
    Akaie's Avatar Sangi Ukon'e no Chūjō
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    Another little update. Here's the first solid campaign map example. Look real good, and you'll notice the general standing outside the fort is none other than Tadakatsu in all his antler glory!

    (Little note: Ignore those orange/gold unit bars on the big banner; haven't gotten to it yet . If you want to use your imagination, they will be the same colour as the crest.)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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  7. #107

    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    Anton - farm portholes as promised.
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  8. #108
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Nord View Post
    I brought this up in another thread and thought I'd see what you guys think about this. I don't know what the unit rosters will look like for the mod, but in my humble opinion I think that Yari Ashigaru should be equipped with the pike that Oda Long Yari Ashigaru (the really long, straight bladed one) have because it is the most historically accurate one. The Jumonji Yari (sp?), the trident looking one, should be for samurai only imo, as it was a more expensive spear than the other type. So I'd exchange the normal yari for the samurai to the jumonji, and give all ashigaru the Oda Long Yari Ashigaru, for historical accuracy's sake.

    It's up to you guys of course, and I'll play the mod no matter what you decide!
    Hmmm, how about just editing the blade head of the yari used by the ashigaru, remove the side blades albeit retaining the original length, as for the samurai having a jumonji yari blade, I think it would look weird, performing slashing sojutsu moves with a blade that has an impediment to it. (side blades get in the way of slashing....)

    Maybe have the jumonji yari wielding samurai as a new unit? Zen mod had them as Jizamurai, troops wielding jumonji yari clad in armor that makes them look like nodachi, meaning, no kabuto, no sode shoulder guard.

    And another one, jumonji yari with the length, as short as the su yari used by the Yari samurai, and call them Te Yari Samurai............ok I based that on the unit made by the Ran No Jidai team.

    (Its clickable by the way....An S2 overhaul mod.)

    Seriously. Click it. Its the only overhaul mod that's overhauling enough to bring out NEW clans
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  9. #109
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    Is it possible to mod out the blade itself on the yaris in shogun 2? If so the Te Yari Samurai sounds like a good idea. Also I tried switching the Yari Samurai's yari to the Jumonji Yari, and yes it does look a bit weird when they do slashing moves, especially when they do it through their own friends! But they do look so glorious!

  10. #110

    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    I really like this Banner of the Honda and the antler (Tadakatsu is THE BOZZ) but could you make the blue more dark (like Date-Clan)?

    Ah and short question, can I change sides? So that I can change between Toyotomi and Tokugawa?
    Last edited by Carthago; December 14, 2011 at 08:39 AM.

  11. #111

    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    I like the proposed political system, the only quibble I have is perhaps you could have thought up a better name than [faction] monk?

    Perhaps Agitator, Dissident, Advocate, Insurgent, Firebrand, Instigator, Provocateur .... thesaurus.com

  12. #112
    Akaie's Avatar Sangi Ukon'e no Chūjō
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Carthago View Post
    I really like this Banner of the Honda and the antler (Tadakatsu is THE BOZZ) but could you make the blue more dark (like Date-Clan)?

    Ah and short question, can I change sides? So that I can change between Toyotomi and Tokugawa?
    The Honda colours are actually historically-based, so I'd need a really good reason to go against him . Plus, they look very distinct.

    I'll clear that second point up later. I have to work on so many areas, meaning that while a huge amount of work has already gotten done, few parts are actually complete and to my liking .

    Quote Originally Posted by Charsi View Post
    I like the proposed political system, the only quibble I have is perhaps you could have thought up a better name than [faction] monk?

    Perhaps Agitator, Dissident, Advocate, Insurgent, Firebrand, Instigator, Provocateur .... thesaurus.com
    I left them as [faction] monk to avoid confusion. Let me explain .

    There are a few agent models: 3 metsuke, 3 ninja, 2 (I think) geisha, 3 monks and 3 missionaries. I really can't use any agent model other than the monk model, because you'd have the same model for two completely different agents. On top of that, having missionaries running around does not seem appropriate. For some, this wouldn't be a problem, but I ultimately wouldn't like it.

    My second option is to use body parts meant for units. I have been thinking about this for some time. My only concern is that those new Tokugawa/Toyotomi agents would not look sufficiently distinct from any general/soldier on the campaign map. I'll see what I can do, but if I'm not happy with any result I'll just leave them as monks.

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  13. #113
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    Hmm...still wondering how the new vassalage system would work...
    Last edited by weirdoascensor; December 14, 2011 at 02:25 PM.

  14. #114
    Akaie's Avatar Sangi Ukon'e no Chūjō
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    Thanks to the development of the political alignment system, I don't have to have half of Japan vassalized to either Toyotomi or Tokugawa, which is for the better.

    Tokugawa and Toyotomi will still have a few vassals, but most are independent and in some cases are vassals to other factions.

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  15. #115

    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    With this political alignment system, what would happen if either the tokugawa or the toyotomi are defeated?
    Oh and great ideas, can't wait!

  16. #116
    Akaie's Avatar Sangi Ukon'e no Chūjō
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    The Toyotomi political alignment will still hang around even if you knock them out, and the same goes for the Tokugawa.

    Think of it as pockets of stubborn Toyotomi supporters that refuse to let Hideyoshi's legacy simply wither away .

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  17. #117
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    A silly question maybe but , have you made it so clans that are tokugawa and toyotomi-supporting clans respectivley can't be allies? Because having alliances between toyotomi and tokugawa supporters would be... Strange. Also, have you decided on which year the campaign will end and how many turns per year there will be?

  18. #118
    Akaie's Avatar Sangi Ukon'e no Chūjō
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    There is really nothing to say that a particular clan can't be allied with another, regardless of their religion. In ROTS, to my knowledge a Taira-supporting clan can be allied with a Minamoto-supporting clan, so it won't feel any more weirder than that.

    I'll refrain from answering the second question and incorporate my response into a reveal at a later date.

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  19. #119
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    Actually I did think it was pretty strange that clans who were politically aligned to the Taira would ally themselves with minamoto aligned clans and then go to war with the Taira or clans allied with the Taira. Maybe thats just me lol.

  20. #120
    Akaie's Avatar Sangi Ukon'e no Chūjō
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    Default Re: The Sekigahara Campaign

    I certainly do get where you're coming from.

    How about this: at any point where a clan allies itself with a clan of the opposite political alignment, that clan is pulling off a sanada-esque scheme to stay alive .

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