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Thread: [Preview] Kingdom of England

  1. #81

    Icon3 Re: [Preview] Kingdom of England

    For english soldiers & hunters in The Rochester Bestiary c.1230 see http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...3#post12290073

    druzhina345
    Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

  2. #82

    Default Re: [Preview] Kingdom of England

    Amasing work .Any idea when this will be ready ? I would like to try it before Rome 2.

  3. #83

  4. #84
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Preview] Kingdom of England

    I am curious whether there will be some kind of Baron Alliance faction, if so whether they are playlable and whether they use same skins (CoAs) as royal English units.

  5. #85
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Preview] Kingdom of England

    Quote Originally Posted by demagogos nicator View Post
    I am curious whether there will be some kind of Baron Alliance faction, if so whether they are playlable and whether they use same skins (CoAs) as royal English units.
    Yes there will be a shadow faction in the campaign however it wont be playable as it wants to beat you up and take over your authority.

  6. #86
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Preview] Kingdom of England

    EDIT: sorry, double post.
    Last edited by demagogos nicator; June 16, 2013 at 04:17 AM.

  7. #87
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Preview] Kingdom of England

    Thanks for your answer

    What about the skins and coat of arms? Will the chevalers of shadow faction use skins based on coat of arms of historical rebel lords?

    Btw. I thought that spear-armed footserjeants and non longbow peasant archers were still used at the middle of the 13th. century. Am I wrong or you just decided to not include them as they disappeard too early after the start date.

    I am also curious what was the typical anglo-norman army composition at the second half of the 13th. century before the Scottish wars of independence.

  8. #88

    Default Re: [Preview] Kingdom of England

    In first half of 13th century shield+one handed spear/sword was still common amongst infantry, however in second half of 13th century 2-handed weapons seems to be much more widepsread (besides occasional bucklers and sieges, when large shields were really necessary). Take a look in Maciejowski/Morgan Bible.

    Regarding longbows, I thought that they were basic weapon in Europea since prehistory. For ex. Otzi the Icemen (3300 BC) had longbow.
    On the other hand, some of bows from Bayeux Tapestry seems to be really short... Why didn't they choose more powerful longbows?

  9. #89
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Preview] Kingdom of England

    Thanks for your answer.

    I thought that longbows were never really widespread in Europe untill the 14th. century and before they were used to some extend only in Scandinavia and Wales. IMO, most common type of bow in feudal armies untill the 14th. were selfbows which were just a little bit shorter than bowmen himself. The selfbows were probably used also by Normans at Hastings.

  10. #90
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Preview] Kingdom of England

    Quote Originally Posted by demagogos nicator View Post
    Thanks for your answer.

    I thought that longbows were never really widespread in Europe untill the 14th. century and before they were used to some extend only in Scandinavia and Wales. IMO, most common type of bow in feudal armies untill the 14th. were selfbows which were just a little bit shorter than bowmen himself. The selfbows were probably used also by Normans at Hastings.
    You are correct, the longbow was used before the large emphasis of England, by Welshmen and Scandinavian. It was the selfbow and warbow that other European armies used including the Normans. It was only during the English conquest of Wales that King Henry, followed by King Edward II that they realized this weapon could be used widely by their armies.

  11. #91

    Default Re: [Preview] Kingdom of England

    Quote Originally Posted by demagogos nicator View Post
    Thanks for your answer.

    I thought that longbows were never really widespread in Europe untill the 14th. century and before they were used to some extend only in Scandinavia and Wales. IMO, most common type of bow in feudal armies untill the 14th. were selfbows which were just a little bit shorter than bowmen himself. The selfbows were probably used also by Normans at Hastings.
    I'm really not convinced regarding this. Besides numerous longbows from Scandinavia, there are also longbows for ex. from 10-11th century Poland, 180-200 cm long. I've found somewhere that longbows remains are much more numerous than shortbow. Some people even believe that "shortbow" is 19th century fantasy, and in Europea, where horse archery was very rare, there was no need for short bows. It seems logical to me, however there is indeed evidence, that Normans used shorter bows (Bayeux Tapestry). Why were they using such short (120 cm?) and weak (estimated of about 50-60 pounds) bows I really have no idea...

  12. #92
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Preview] Kingdom of England

    Besides numerous longbows from Scandinavia, there are also longbows for ex. from 10-11th century Poland, 180-200 cm long. I've found somewhere that longbows remains are much more numerous than shortbow. Some people even believe that "shortbow" is 19th century fantasy
    That are really surprising facts to me. I was convienced that there were no great emphasis on archery in continental European warfare in the pre-HYW period. Since ancient times there were not any great archery warfare tradition in most of the Europe and bow was used mostly as a hunting weapon. In the feudal era the main force on the field were knights, the archers (besides the profesional mercaneries) were leavied mostly from the rans of the peasants and hunters who equip themselves with whichever bows they had or were able to make. That is at least how I see it and how I read it many time in various literature but offcourse primary sources and archeological findings weight more and I am open to the new facts

  13. #93
    Heathen Storm's Avatar Where's my axe?
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    Default Re: [Preview] Kingdom of England

    Quote Originally Posted by demagogos nicator View Post
    Thanks for your answer.

    I thought that longbows were never really widespread in Europe untill the 14th. century and before they were used to some extend only in Scandinavia and Wales. IMO, most common type of bow in feudal armies untill the 14th. were selfbows which were just a little bit shorter than bowmen himself. The selfbows were probably used also by Normans at Hastings.
    Selfbows and longbows are the same thing actually.... The term "longbow" came about in the 1500's (according to Wiki). The Scandinavian and Northern Germanic "longbows" (the Holmegaard and Stellmoor finds) are simply longbows - and selfbows - they are one and the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wareg View Post
    It seems logical to me, however there is indeed evidence, that Normans used shorter bows (Bayeux Tapestry). Why were they using such short (120 cm?) and weak (estimated of about 50-60 pounds) bows I really have no idea...
    This is probably due to one of two reasons;

    1) The short bow is much easier and quicker to make than the longbow/selfbow. If I were in a haste to outfit an army large enough to overtake the Saxon army, I would certainly consider handing out short bows to the archers.

    2) It may simply be an artistic error. The Franks really didn't have much in the way of the archery tradition, so the Normans would most likely have used the traditions of their Nordic ancestors - why would they change from the longbow which the Scandinavians were known for to the shortbow? It may have just been an error by the creators of the Tapestry.
    Last edited by Heathen Storm; June 17, 2013 at 03:58 AM.

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  14. #94

    Default Re: [Preview] Kingdom of England

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Storm View Post
    Selfbows and longbows are the same thing actually.... .
    But a real longbow isn't just a longer piece of wood. A longbow is made from a section of a tree trunk so that the heartwood (which is good in compression) is on the belly and the sapwood (which is good in tension) is on the back. This is the same idea behind the composite bow. Yew has the best features for this.

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  15. #95
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Preview] Kingdom of England

    Selfbows and longbows are the same thing actually.... The term "longbow" came about in the 1500's (according to Wiki). The Scandinavian and Northern Germanic "longbows" (the Holmegaard and Stellmoor finds) are simply longbows - and selfbows - they are one and the same.
    Now, I am really comfused.

  16. #96
    mav61's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: England Faction Preview [Released]

    I think you guys have just revolutionised modding for M2 looking forward to seeing and playing this, been following it for a while i'm as eager to try this out as Rome2

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