Hu's visit to the US...

[danzig]

Well as most probably know today Hu was heckled by an old woman at the White House today as well as protesters outside. What amazes me about this is the media take on it seems to show it as somehow an embarassment for Bush and the White House. Correct me if Im wrong this IS the United States not China and people are whether we like it or not entitled to do these sorts of things (though obviously the woman was arrested for disrupting the event). So why is this an embarassment to Bush or to America as a whole? If anything the embarassment falls on China and Hu because their human rights violations, limits on speech etc. Its pretty amusing that Chinese tv blocked out the coverage when the lady started to interrupt and evidently no mention of the woman or the protest in any Chinese papers. As I said the embarassment falls on China not us or Bush admin and before someone wants to go bring up stuff about the US and Bush term...do it in your own thread please this thread is about China and lord knows there are enough US threads to keep people happy.

So question is, should Bush have apologized for the actions of a single person to Hu? And if so why? Simply to be nice? Its funny we make a bigger deal about a single person protesting Hu then we do Bush being protested in his London visit.

[RZZZA]

Well Cindy Sheehan got arrested and dragged out when she attempted a similar stunt. It is good form for the President to apologize for the disruption, but thats where the apology should end imo. That was neither the time nor place for a political protest, so an apology is called for, but America should not in the least feel guilty or anything about that.

[Kanaric]

Well Cindy Sheehan got arrested and dragged out when she attempted a similar stunt. It is good form for the President to apologize for the disruption, but thats where the apology should end imo. That was neither the time nor place for a political protest, so an apology is called for, but America should not in the least feel guilty or anything about that.

If they just let people in to ask the president questions instead of shielding him like an infant from any dissent then people like Sheehan wouldn't do that. They would wait, raise their hand, ask their question, and be done with it. Instead we have fake town hall mettings, and politicians who shun answering any questions besides those they approve of.

Seriously, if the democratic process existed in this country and people were allowed to ask real questions or see the president without signing a loyalty oath or agreement on what your going to ask then people wouldn't do this type of thing. Those fake town hall meetings annoy me more than anything, i can see Stalinist propoganda written all over it.

Well as most probably know today Hu was heckled by an old woman at the White House today as well as protesters outside.

Good, the guy should be considered an enemy of the state and be barred from even entering this country. Hes an enemy to democracy and an enemy to the united states. The things they do to the people in their country is SICK, we should not even be dealing with these degenerates.

IE: putting those falun gong in prison and then harvesting their organs and selling them to the highest bidder. Their was a large protest outside of the sears tower in chicago on this, of course the media is told not to report on it since they have to be nice to China. The only person critical of them seems to be Lou Dobbs, everyone else kisses their ass.

[Tiwaz]

Hmm? Danzig, CAN you go bother Bushy just like that? No you don't. Truth is that state leaders are high profile targets and thus they have high security. Permitting "heckling" by older woman is failure in the security bubble, depending on how close that woman got.

And as Hu was visiting statesman it was greatly responsibility of USA to provide solid security. Failure to do so is shame to US Secret Service same way it would be embarrasement for chinese versio of it if similar was done to Bush when he would visit China.

[danzig]

Hmm? Danzig, CAN you go bother Bushy just like that? No you don't. Truth is that state leaders are high profile targets and thus they have high security. Permitting "heckling" by older woman is failure in the security bubble, depending on how close that woman got.

Bush gets heckled or protested all the time which usually leads to the arrest of people or at very least removal for disruption, that isnt the issue here and Im not supporting the protesters regardless of who whether its this lady (who I agree somehow got passed security but really thats not as bad as a dud grenade being thrown at Bush) or anyone else. The issue is the response that Bush is suppose to be embarassed that Hu had to see it.

And as Hu was visiting statesman it was greatly responsibility of USA to provide solid security. Failure to do so is shame to US Secret Service same way it would be embarrasement for chinese versio of it if similar was done to Bush when he would visit China.

You do realize Bush's appearance abroad generally generates large protests requiring security to be extra tight but Ive yet to see any European leader apologize for their citizens for it, nor should they.

[Tiwaz]

Bush gets heckled or protested all the time which usually leads to the arrest of people or at very least removal for disruption, that isnt the issue here and Im not supporting the protesters regardless of who whether its this lady (who I agree somehow got passed security but really thats not as bad as a dud grenade being thrown at Bush) or anyone else. The issue is the response that Bush is suppose to be embarassed that Hu had to see it.



You do realize Bush's appearance abroad generally generates large protests requiring security to be extra tight but Ive yet to see any European leader apologize for their citizens for it, nor should they.

Apparently you do not understand this... There is not necessarily something to be shamed of in protests but very much being shamed of letting security screw up. And if Hu SAW security fail it is indeed something to be twice as shamed.

And for clarity.
Protests are different story.
Though protests are rather ineffective too. I think better sign of dislike is... Total absence.
Nobody to be seen anywhere, total marginalisation of leader and his/her importance.

[danzig]

Apparently you do not understand this... There is not necessarily something to be shamed of in protests but very much being shamed of letting security screw up. And if Hu SAW security fail it is indeed something to be twice as shamed.

No I understand it fine its you who apparently cant understand the point of the thread and had little to do with the lax security aspect of it and the political nature of having Hu embarassed on the White House lawn that the US media has focused on. The point is whether Bush should have apologized for that, something some media outlets sold as oh, how could Bush admin let another world leader be embarrassed like that. Few even mentioned the security aspect since guess what she wasnt dangerous and probably passed thru metal detectors just fine.

[Count of Montesano]

I personally loved hearing about this story - the best part being that Chinese media immediately went to black nationwide when the protest started.

The real embarrasing moment was when the announcer addressed Hu as the president of the Republic of China - which is really the official name of Taiwan.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...sit_Gaffe.html

On a totally unrelated note - I'm ****** off with the liberal idiots here in Seattle. A week ago, thousands of protesters closed down Seattle to protest the treatment of illegal workers. When one boss tried to fire several of his workers for walking off their job to join the protests - the local community crucified the guy for being "repressive and inhumane."

Then the leader of one of the most brutal regimes in the world shows up in town AND NOTHING HAPPENS. What is up with that!??! Where are the thousands of protesters screaming free Tibet?!!??!

Oh I forgot - only America is oppressive and should be hated. China is a bastion of free thought and truly honors human dignity - we evil Americans could learn so much from them. Best of all, China actually forces women to have abortions - the ultimate pro-choice dream of how government should operate.

[mike^_^]

its an example of the brainwashing and steering of our society

take the last couple weeks for example. they announce their "guest worker" blanket amnesty program for the illegals, then these mexican groups like mecha la raza etc. hundreds of these, who are bought and paid forby old white men in suits, take to the streets and start protesting against the evil and oppressive government, then your everyday folks see the mexicans in the streets protesting the government, this forces them to support the government. its the same thing with the democrat and republican shinanigens, it's WWF wrestling.

also you'll notice all of the american media is basically in a ky jelly lovefest with the chinese. shows you how false and transparent they are. bunch of bootlicking sellouts make me sick, I don't know how they sleep at night

[Kanaric]

its an example of the brainwashing and steering of our society

take the last couple weeks for example. they announce their "guest worker" blanket amnesty program for the illegals, then these mexican groups like mecha la raza etc. hundreds of these, who are bought and paid forby old white men in suits, take to the streets and start protesting against the evil and oppressive government, then your everyday folks see the mexicans in the streets protesting the government, this forces them to support the government. its the same thing with the democrat and republican shinanigens, it's WWF wrestling.

also you'll notice all of the american media is basically in a ky jelly lovefest with the chinese. shows you how false and transparent they are. bunch of bootlicking sellouts make me sick, I don't know how they sleep at night

Its TRUE, the only person i ever see say negative things about china is Lou Dobbs. Everyone else wants to kiss the ass of those fascists. They are literally no different than Nazi Germany, they even comitt genocide against a certain religious group and go as far as to even sell their organs. They will do anything for money. They are WORSE than Russia ever was and far more of a threat. They are a nation that could EASILY soon outspend us in a future cold war as well. So they will be around forever.

The thing is that the corporations and the government want to play buddy with China and allow them to buy our country until we have nothing left. You would think that China controls our media with what you see on TV, in fact they probably do. These corporations want to expand in China so they are willing to censor themselves to do business their and act as if Hu is the 2nd coming of Christ just for another billion $$$.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Then the leader of one of the most brutal regimes in the world shows up in town AND NOTHING HAPPENS. What is up with that!??! Where are the thousands of protesters screaming free Tibet?!!??!

Strange - I was just watching the news and there, outside the White House during Hu's speech, were at least several hundred protesters holding up signs saying things like ... 'Free Tibet'. Does that answer your question?

Oh I forgot - only America is oppressive and should be hated. China is a bastion of free thought and truly honors human dignity - we evil Americans could learn so much from them. Best of all, China actually forces women to have abortions - the ultimate pro-choice dream of how government should operate.

Er, yup - the 'Liberals' love China. I guess all those multiple-piercing, dreadlocked guys waving banners and signs about the oppression of the Chinese Government whenever a Chinese statesman visits my city are members of 'Conservative Hippies United'.

[danzig]

Strange - I was just watching the news and there, outside the White House during Hu's speech, were at least several hundred protesters holding up signs saying things like ... 'Free Tibet'. Does that answer your question?



Er, yup - the 'Liberals' love China. I guess all those multiple-piercing, dreadlocked guys waving banners and signs about the oppression of the Chinese Government whenever a Chinese statesman visits my city are members of 'Conservative Hippies United'.

Hey I resent that I had an earring and I have long hair and Im a conserative so nyah! Hate when threads bring up the left/right crap, just once it would be nice if a thread could go without someone bring it up (Count of Montesano ).

[Tiwaz]

Then next question is, when other leaders of similar situation come to USA are they put through same treatment? In all honesty I have no idea since I have no interest in those gatherings and specially not their PR image but I have understanding that often these things are arranged indoors. At least when other leader is likely to cause such protests.


By the way, security breach is never minor detail. Metal detectors or no and should never be said "she was harmless". If harmless lady can penetrate security so can less harmless. That is rather disturbing that USA is so incapable of securing it's visitors.

[Garbarsardar]

So question is, should Bush have apologized for the actions of a single person to Hu? And if so why? Simply to be nice? Its funny we make a bigger deal about a single person protesting Hu then we do Bush being protested in his London visit.

Bush apologising will do nothing to dissuade the PRC from believing this was an intentional disregard from the part os the US for safety arrangements. I suspect that someone in the administration tried to pull a balancing act to the fact that bush is accomodating the leader of one of the most oppressive regimes in the world.

[danzig]

Bush apologising will do nothing to dissuade the PRC from believing this was an intentional disregard from the part os the US for safety arrangements. I suspect that someone in the administration tried to pull a balancing act to the fact that bush is accomodating the leader of one of the most oppressive regimes in the world.

No doubt, I suspect China would believe it was done on purpose for the simple fact Bush admin is usually very good at preventing these things for their own despite the fact even there its slipped. Very possibly someone in Bush WH just whistled and looked the other way on purpose but it would seem to be a pointless gesture to do that.

[Count of Montesano]

Look Danzig and Thiudareiks - I think I need to make a few things clear here. I also think I have a valid point - how can the liberal community protest so vehemently against Bush and American policies (which I don't always agree with btw) but miss a golden chance to promote human rights and protest an incredibly cruel and exploitive regime?

1. I'm not saying there weren't protests nationwide - I'm saying there were no massive protests (besides about 100 falun gong members) here in Seattle. A few weeks ago THOUSANDS of people took to the streets to protest the new immigration bill. A month ago THOUSANDS gathered to protest the Iraq war. Four years ago TENS OF THOUSANDS shut the city down during the WTO riots to protest evil corporate America.

Oh, and there were few protests at my alma mater, University of Washington. The same school were students protested against a memorial to Medal of Honor winners from World War II because "the military is oppressive and denies gay rights." Things that make you go hmmmm.


Seattle was the only other place in America Hu visited - this should have been a chance for the local community to really come out and give him a taste of Northwest activism. But obviously illegal immigrants who break American laws are the truly oppressed, not the Chinese student sentenced to nine years hard labor for throwing an egg at a statue of Mao during the Tiananmen Square protests.

I'm not an idiot - I realize that Free Tibet is so 1999 when it comes to protests. I know plenty of rich liberals who protest America but would never protest a country pumping so much money into the local tech industry. How could they afford the BMW they drive to the anti-Bush protest if China didnt sign a new deal with Microsoft?!?!?

And now that I'm done bashing the liberals, I'm going to bonk the conservatives for waging a war in the name of freedom in the Middle East while kowtowing to China. It's almost the same level of hypocrisy.

[ChineseManchurian]

Falun Gong? People still believe in that kind of ********?
Interesting part is, 99% Americans believe Falun Gong is innocent and persecuting by Chinese government, and 99% Chinese believe that Falun Gong is an evil belief. so ironically.
BTW, please don't bring out "Chinese propaganda" as your reason, people are not blind as you do.

[Farnan]

Falun Gong? People still believe in that kind of ********?
Interesting part is, 99% Americans believe Falun Gong is innocent and persecuting by Chinese government, and 99% Chinese believe that Falun Gong is an evil belief. so ironically.
BTW, please don't bring out "Chinese propaganda" as your reason, people are not blind as you do.

Why not? Propaganda greatly influences public opinion. And where do you get your statistics, I'd like the source.

[RZZZA]

What is the big deal about Falun Gong, why do people call it a cult? It just seems like an alternative to Yoga to me...some kind of ritual to help relax your body and cleanse the mind, or something like that? why is that so bad?

[Gogoas]

It's cause falun gong says that it heals everything, so people with cancer/whatever disease refused to undergo any kind of treatement and end up dying.