IB2 FD Map

[Riothamus]

Fascinating. AFAIK Britain was divided to Romans south of the Thames, then into Litaui in Wales, Dumnonii in Cornwall, Eburac, and then of course the Aremoriciani and the Litaui in Britanny and Normandy.

Halsall goes as far as to suggest that the "Groans of the Britons", which was probably representative of a real missive or envoy prompted by the restoration of Roman north Gaul in 445 and probably sent in either 445/446 (Aetius smashed the Franks: he recaptured Arras, Tournai, Cambrai, Trier, and Cologne and reduced them to federate status until he died) or after 448 after the defeat of the Aremoriciani, recieved an actual response, although not necessarily military.

Archaeological evidence supports that south of the Thames (like literally, a straight line directly south from the tip of the Thames and nothing North of it) the concept of being a Roman citizen was still very important and it seems that the Roman government in Londinium was still intact into the late 440's or possibly later. The Litaui were still loyal to Rome as well, fighting at Chalons with the Armoricans.

My estimates of the Notitia Dignitatum put the size of the British Limitanei garrison under the Dux Britanniarum (this is after the Comes Britanniarum had left for Gaul in 408) at 23340 Limitanei across the Saxon Shore and Hadrian's wall (this is without the usual 70% or so operating strength factored in) and 11400 men in the Comes Britanniarum's army.

Of course, by 436 the majority of these units had gone over to the local civitas or simply disbanded.

It is interesting but It's really a region we don't want to get too carried away with Mag. As you pointed out in 436AD, Britain it had become lost to the Roman Empire and also its just a small region in comparison to the Mod in general. A few changes were needed. My thoughts are starting now to move to how the Ostrogoths, Gepids, Lombardi and to possibly Thuringia and Bulgaria are going to be represented under the Hun Empire. This will be challenging for they are all vital factions historically but we do have ideas. Just to not we have now the ERE set up in the game(WIP) and will be working on the Sassanids very soon

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

The Bulgars were Huns. The Huns absorbed the Proto-Oghur Dingling in the 2nd century AD when they came out of the Altai mountains, and then overthrew Kangju and Kush by the late 3rd, with the Kidarite Huns becoming the Chionite Confederation. The Huns were a core of Altai-Oghurs, with the primary Oghuric groups arriving in Europe c.a. 460 AD with the expansion of the Hepthaltites and Rou-ran (Mongolian Avars, the Eurasian Avars were a group of Hepthlatites).

Thuringia, the Gepidae, Amali Goths, and Langobardi will all be interesting indeed. The Huns had a lot of influence over these Vassals (which also included the Scirii, Rugii, Heruli, Neccar Burgundians, Neccar Franks, and possibly the Sclaveni and Antes) and Hyun Jin Kim suggests the Huns were continued the Xiongnu practice of putting their own leaders over their vassal nations (He suggests Edeco, Onegesius, and Odoacer were Hun or half-hun but I have doubts about this personally. I think Edeco was Scirian and Odoacer was half-Scirii and half-Heruli.)

Rua/Rugila/Ruga was the Hunnic king in 436. We really don't know much about the Hunnic vassals until the 440's though.

[Riothamus]

The Bulgars were Huns. .

Hmmm.. this will disturb many I'm sure with a blanket statement. NikeBG helped me with the Bulgars for my RTW BI Mod and I can see him now cringing at this.

[Reno Melitensis]

Hmmm.. this will disturb many I'm sure with a blanket statement. NikeBG helped me with the Bulgars for my RTW BI Mod and I can see him now cringing at this.

Every one has his views and interpretations of events. As for me, I very much doubt that the Proto-Bulgarians where Huns. I guess they where of Turkic in origin as much as the Magyars where, and joined or where assimilated by the Huns during their advance to central Europe.

The title is not attested earlier than the reign of Majorian, but I now suspect that Sigisvult may have been the first Comes Foederatorum.

I too suspected this, not that Sigisvultus was Comes Foederatum, he himself was of Gothic origin, but that the likes of Andeovotus, maybe Comes Foederatum Gothicum, Ricimerus Comes Foederatum Burgundunum and his nephew Gundobad and others. The last two may have been Orestes, father of Romulus Augustulus and our friend Odovacer. Off course in game we will have to create one ancillary that of Comes Foederatum.

Cheers
Cheers.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Hmmm.. this will disturb many I'm sure with a blanket statement. NikeBG helped me with the Bulgars for my RTW BI Mod and I can see him now cringing at this.

Oh, you're not referring to the Oghur Bulgars (Huns) but to the actual Bulgarian Bulgars? They wouldn't come around for another 3 centuries Rio, and were in Bactria at this time. They were probably (ethnically) a mix of Altai and Iranian.

The so called "Oghur Bulgars" were just another wave of Huns driven by the drought in 460. Saragur, Onogur, Kutrigur, Utigur, and Sabir are all Turkish names. The Huns were a mix of Altai and Oghuric (with technically Xiongnu origins, and the Xiongnu nobility was Altai-Yeneisian).

I too suspected this, not that Sigisvultus was Comes Foederatum, he himself was of Gothic origin, but that the likes of Andeovotus, maybe Comes Foederatum Gothicum, Ricimerus Comes Foederatum Burgundunum and his nephew Gundobad and others. The last two may have been Orestes, father of Romulus Augustulus and our friend Odovacer. Off course in game we will have to create one ancillary that of Comes Foederatum.

Judging by the anthology of commands given via the modernr econstructions of Primary sources, I'd say that Sigisvultus was Comes Foederatorum from 426-437, when he gets promoted to the Junior Magister Militum command. Then the Goth Vertericus becomes Comes Foederatorum, likely until 442 but he is only attested in 439. Ricimer replaces him, becoming Comes Foederatorum in 443.

Much of this is actually my own work I've done. I was the one who proposed Ricimer was appointed by the treaty of 443, and I also suspect Majorian was Magister Militum of Gaul prior to Agrippinus' command in 452, as that would coincide perfectly with Majorian being forced into retirement by Aetius who maneuvered to have Gaudentius betrothed to Eudocia.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

The title is not attested earlier than the reign of Majorian, but I now suspect that Sigisvult may have been the first Comes Foederatorum.

[Reno Melitensis]

The idea that Majorian was MM per Gallas is new. As you said he was forced out into retirement by Aetius to put Gaudentius into the Theodosian family. We know from historical accounts that Licinia Eudoxia seems to have a soft spot for Majorian.

Aetius was accused by the Roman Senate that he was excluding Italians from important military and public posts. We know that his father was either Scythian and or Sarmatian in origin, even if the term Scythian sometimes refers to eastern germanic tribes. Many of the above mentioned are either Germanic - Sigisvultus, Ricimerus, Verticus and Andeovotus - in origin or natives of Gaul - Avitus, Aegidus, Agrippinus and Iberians - Astyrius and Merobaudes. So Majorian may have been Italian, maybe on his mother side, and judging by the way he was removed out of the way and by the fact that he retired ti his family estates in Italia.

Cheers

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Gaudentius is Gothic, I think Frigeridus specifies the nature of the term "Scythian" in Aetius' origin. McEvoy in her recent book Child Emperor Rule in the Late Roman West thoroughly explains the relationship between Aetius, Valentinian III, and Theodosius II.

Men like Stilicho, Constantius III, and Aetius should be seen more as "Managers" than "Generalissimos," taking the "active" role in a partnership. Unlike Stilicho, Theodosius II was present and actively involved in Western Roman Politics, which limited Aetius' control, although Aetius had complete dominance over the military and beginning in the 440's, was beginning to try and re-integrate the Gallic Aristocracy into the Roman government, due to a disconnect between the Gallic and Italic aristocracy.

However, Aetius' downfall was not due to scheming amongst the aristocracy. The Western Roman system by the time Aetius came around was now built on the concept of a ceremonial emperor with some legislative function and an active partner. Valentinian III was tired of the way the system worked, disgruntled that Aetius would not campaign against Marcian in the East (which the West couldn't afford and Aetius knew that), and disgruntled at the deposition of Majorian. He killed Aetius to try and become an active Emperor, and tried to win control of the military. However, the aristocracy wanted the system first established with Valentinian II, because it was built around how the child-emperor system functioned. So they killed Valentinian III, by hiring Aetius' Bucellarii to do it.

Sigisvultus was appointed by Flavius Constantius Felix, not Aetius. Merobaudes was a Roman, descended from a Frankish general of the same name a few generations earlier. Majorian seems to have been Italian judging by the disconnect between him and the Gallic aristocracy in 457, which he resolve din 458.

My idea that Majorian was MM per Gallias stems from the timeliness of Agrippinus' appointment to that post in 452 and the approximate time Majorian was put out of service in 450-454, as well as the fact we know he was a high ranking commander under Aetius in the Frankish war of 444-445.

We don't know who replaced Litorius as MM per Gallias, and it's possible it was Majorian. However, Avitus may have held the command of Magister Militum per Gallias at one point, although probably before Litorius, possibly in the campaigns of 430 and 431. Merobaudes had some sort of Gallic command when he campaigned with Aetius in the Alps in 430 and with Litorius against the Aremoricans in 435-437.

Merobaudes may have been Comes Tractus Armoriciani or Dux Belgicae Secundae in the 430's, possibly from 435-439 when he becomes the official court poet, but also possibly from 435-443. Aegidius, therefore, must have been appointed in 439 or 443, as Merobaudes' replacement.

Aegidius was a Dux, possibly Dux Belgicae Secundae. There was also the post of Comes Tractus Armoriciani which was held by Paulus in 464.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Well, the Francisca was developed from the Roman Securis it seems, the first real Fransiscae didn't develop until the end of the century.

[rhalina]

In fact, the "real" bipenis (double curved back) was used from 480 to 540, according the different chronologies based on moneyfounds and composition of funeral furnitures.
The "pseudo-bipenis (one curved back or straight back) seems to be used from 450-580, and the firsts "protofranciscas", also callad "late-roman" was found from 440 to 470 ((and some years before, for some authors, or from 400/410 for the Rhine aera).
After this, there is the side of the double-edged axes, combat weapons with symetrical sharp, for this period. Later appaers the unsymetrical combat (?) axes, called "breitaxts" or beardaxes.

In addition tot he texts, we (me + guys who are found of throwing weapons of the merovingian periods, i'll dont dare to speak for the IB team here) are thinking that the francisca appears arround the two-thirds fo teh Vth century. Why and why is it disappears still be a question

Here a quick look of them: << The Merovingian chronology of the Lower Rhine Aera: results and problems>> by F.Sigmund and E.Nieveler (top) and "Chronologie normalisée du mobilier funéraire mérovingien d'entre Manche et Lorraine" by P.Périn, R.Legoux, F.Vallet (down), and the second pic is a summary of the chronoclassification of francisca by W.HÜbener ("Zeitschrift für Archäologie des Mittelalters: Ein Studie zu die Beilwaffen der Merowingerzeit"). For this last author, the typ1D is the protofrancisca, and he claims the second part of the IVth century as the really firsts use in germanofrankish peoples. Note that the typ1A is the double curved, the 1B the simple, and the 1C a mix regarding the hand-fitting aera of the axehead.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

As Mr Spock would say:

[rhalina]

Hehe, i haven't yet seen those movies, soon, swear
Just put there the weapons, here are the full plates (summary to, the A.F.A.M. doesn't allow copies ), complete book is aviable via the national Museum of AZrcheology at St-Germain en Laye, catching all was discovered within "furniture graves" before 2009. Arround 400 items are classed (13 axe types, 7 spears..) and there are for each a repport to a more complete work (as for the swords pommel with runic nscriptions or rings with Svante Fischer, or the anglosaxon and saxon material in north Gauls with Jean Soulat,...).

http://241-752.forumgratuit.fr/t715-...e-de-400-a-740
http://241-752.forumgratuit.fr/t23-c...-legoux-vallet

Another book was print in 2006, more in the case of this topic: trade and exchanges by waterways and backed ground ways in Gauls. I'm reading it right now, a little bit huge and long, but verry fine!
Don't know if you have already seen this one? https://www.academia.edu/7485517/Val...ationales_1993

Same group of work, some articles in English, some others in Deutsch, most in French. I have found verry interesting the one by M.Martin about the roman long knives, lattes and the furthers "scramasaxes"

[naddum]

I'm afraid the map isn't showing in the first few posts - any other images?
How much of India and Transoxiana will be featured?

[naddum]

Thanks.

I hope you don't mind some feedback:

Transoxiana and the Hindu Kush region need more provinces. Samarqand, Panjakent, Chach, Balkh, Bamiyan, Ladakh, Kabul, Zabul, Varakhsha, Khujand, Termez, for example. Rayy and Abarshahr should also be included.

I was hoping to see a little more of India too. The Guptas would be a little pointless on this map, although the Rai dynasty of Sindh could be included.

Transoxiana and Mesopotamia should be as dense, if not more so, than the densest parts of Europe on this map IMHO.

[Riothamus]

The map is Mundus Magnus, the second map you posted. We are working are way quickly toward setting up the factions in the presented map. Suggestions are certainly welcomed

[juanplay]

two quick question: are Odoacer Rex Italiae and Flagellum Dei the same project now? is the map the only thing that is left to be completed before the mod goes out. Thanks?

[Reno Melitensis]

two quick question: are Odoacer Rex Italiae and Flagellum Dei the same project now? is the map the only thing that is left to be completed before the mod goes out. Thanks?

Odovacer has its own map, slightly larger than the map of Vandalorum it includes much of the ERE western provinces with only half of Asia minor to the east. The steppes are better represented and much of Gaul is too. IBFD has its own map now, and that is the Mundus Magnus map, a huge map indeed. Many units will be 'transferred' from our current mods to IBFD, while midnite is working on new models that we don't have like Armenia, the Sassanids and some more totally new factions, plus there is going to be for the first time in IB II brand new faction icons.

Cheers

[Iforgot]

That map looks awesome, are any of the rivers navigable?

[Marc Byzantinum]

This mod looks so great! I'm so excited! Thank you for your great work!!!

[Bernardius]

great map cant wait to play