More realism than RSII, or vanilla realism?

[TheRomanRuler]

Well, you read it. Is this more realistic than RSII or is this just remake vanilla, with much more realism?

[cogre]

try playing it

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

RSII has, if I have anything to say about it, the same level of realism as RTRVII. The difference is that RTRVII focusses on a smaller area, leaving much more room for detail on the factions in that particular area. Which we used.

[cogre]

oh and the focus of the cursus honorum to get a consul

[Sphere]

Realism is in the eye of the beholder.

In my very humble opinion, I think RTR VII is the best RTW era mod at producing realistic campaigning. The map is only "small" if you think that you are going to steamroll across vast swaths of territory with ease. The reality is the map is huge in terms of what it takes to conquer any portion of it.

For example, capturing and consolidating the island of Sicily which historically was a decades long and viscous affair, only really plays out like that in RTR VII. In mods that use the typical large map, conquering Sicily is usually a simple and straight forward task as there are only a few cities, all easily accessable by the sea. This same dynamic holds in Greece, Italy and Iberia.

But again this is all just my individual perspective on things, others might place value on other things like units, factions, map extents etc. You might as well play the mods and decide for yourself the levels of "realism".

[michell]

Realism is in the eye of the beholder.

In my very humble opinion, I think RTR VII is the best RTW era mod at producing realistic campaigning. The map is only "small" if you think that you are going to steamroll across vast swaths of territory with ease. The reality is the map is huge in terms of what it takes to conquer any portion of it.

For example, capturing and consolidating the island of Sicily which historically was a decades long and viscous affair, only really plays out like that in RTR VII. In mods that use the typical large map, conquering Sicily is usually a simple and straight forward task as there are only a few cities, all easily accessable by the sea. This same dynamic holds in Greece, Italy and Iberia.

But again this is all just my individual perspective on things, others might place value on other things like units, factions, map extents etc. You might as well play the mods and decide for yourself the levels of "realism".

This is the best answer for this queston. For me RTR VII is much more realistic then RS2, becouse of more precise map, much better and complete units descriptions (this is real encyklopedy of ancient warfare), great "wonder" buildings descriptions, new realistic economic system and much better battle mechanics. But the best way to verify it is playing this wonderful mod.

[Nerouin]

It's less realistic than RS2, in my opinion.

This is the best answer for this queston. For me RTR VII is much more realistic then RS2, becouse of more precise map, much better and complete units descriptions (this is real encyklopedy of ancient warfare), great "wonder" buildings descriptions, new realistic economic system and much better battle mechanics. But the best way to verify it is playing this wonderful mod.

I don't find the battle mechanics as realistic. Most of my battles, especially as Greek factions lacking in cavalry, have been a cyclical show of repeated routs, reformations and attacks by the enemy until the battle timer runs out.

[mcantu]

It's less realistic than RS2, in my opinion.



I don't find the battle mechanics as realistic. Most of my battles, especially as Greek factions lacking in cavalry, have been a cyclical show of repeated routs, reformations and attacks by the enemy until the battle timer runs out.

morale is set relatively higher than most mods. what battle difficulty level are you playing at?

[Nerouin]

morale is set relatively higher than most mods. what battle difficulty level are you playing at?

Medium.

That you use the battle timer disqualifies you from this conversation.

Battles would be endless otherwise.

[Caligula Caesar]

It is definitely not "vanilla realism". You will probably find it does not have very much in common with vanilla, actually. It has new, more realistic units, factions and buildings, it has a new map, a new economic system, new systems of government, good historical descriptions of everything, to name a few things.

[cogre]

half to second that one

[Sphere]

I don't find the battle mechanics as realistic. Most of my battles, especially as Greek factions lacking in cavalry, have been a cyclical show of repeated routs, reformations and attacks by the enemy until the battle timer runs out.

That you use the battle timer disqualifies you from this conversation.

[c19]

That you use the battle timer disqualifies you from this conversation.

lol. Nice. Made my morning.

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

All of the replies in this thread automatically validate my first post in it:

RSII has, if I have anything to say about it, the same level of realism as RTRVII. The difference is that RTRVII focusses on a smaller area, leaving much more room for detail on the factions in that particular area. Which we used.

In the end, it's a matter of opinion. RSII sacrifices some realism (not historical accuracy, mind you, since RSII is in most ways a historically accurate mod concerning its units. The only thing that isn't would be the "what-if" stuff like Sparta, but that's completely designer's choice, and nothing else) in favour of a grand campaign from Iberia to Parthia with tons of different units. RTRVII sacrifices the "grand" bit in favour of realistic, in-depth gameplay in the Western Mediterranean.

To new players: Choose whichever you prefer.

[cogre]

i would recomend the new players wet their beaks, so to speak, on other mods first then try a go at this one and deal with the leadership issues in the spqr campaign. then you will see the difference. i think this has become my favorite rome mod, all others seem to "forget" the cursus honorum

[Maurits]

Thanks, cogre, be sure that we're thinking and working on improvements for it as I speak

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

Battles would be endless otherwise.

No they wouldn't.

Units don't keep routing and coming back. There are 2 kinds of routing:
1. The one where they come back
2. The one where they don't.

Number 1 happens when a large morale shock caused them to rout, but they haven't lost enough men (or are not being chased enough) to rout definitively, so they come back.
Number 2 happens when a unit has gotten some 70% casualties; their morale is at that point so low that they won't come back any more.

So to rout units and to keep them that way: kill them, or at least a large part of them.

[Nerouin]

Bull3pr00f: I'm aware of the differences and of the general mechanics of the game; I've done work on several versions of RTR in the past. That said, severe morale shocks were generally what broke units in real life, and then it was off to the proverbial races; defeated armies would typically take most of their casualties during the post-battle rout rather than in the battle itself. I'm aware that modeling this is easier said than done, but I saw less in the way of units constantly reforming in other mods.

Caligula: I'm aware of the use of chase units, but these are often quite spare in Greek factions.

ShahJahen: RSII is Roma Surrectum II. It's one of the three most popular mods, the other two being RTR and Europa Barbarorum. RS II is different from the others in that it's optimized for a zero-turn recruiting system: that is, you can fill a city's entire recruitment queue and have the units all ready to go in the next turn. Personally I dislike this, as it leads to an enormous number of mega-battles, and, though I realize that battles are what this game is about, fighting sometimes ten large battles per turn can become a bit tedious so far as expansion is concerned.

[z3n]

Caligula: I'm aware of the use of chase units, but these are often quite spare in Greek factions.

The solution to this 'problem' is quite simple. Make a few minor adjustments in the export_unit.txt and export_descr_building.txt and the Greek factions will have the 'chase units'.

[Caligula Caesar]

If you chase them down with cavalry (or even light infantry which has been resting whilst your troops have been fighting), they don't come back...

By the way, I also play with the timer on. That is not because of normal battles, but because of siege battles - back in the days when I played Vanilla, I would besiege a settlement, the AI would "sally forth" and just sit around and do nothing, leaving me with a choice either to attack, which I didn't want to do, or to "admit defeat".