Scoutatoi balanced?

[Basileus of Byzantium]

I've heard that they make things pretty easy for the Romans due to their size mostly. Also some sub-mods have reduced their numbers for balancing. So what is the general consensus on their balance?

[omen1710]

For me, not only scoutatoi but also the other units of roman empire affect the balance of the game very badly. In all my campaign, romans capture 1/3 of campaign before 1300. Turks are destroyed before the year 1200.

[Fotchimus]

They are pretty much the early era Mongols right now. That should point out that something is not right.

[Serbian Hussar]

Late professional units are too plenty and too available to the Romans. It's not historicly accurate, and not to mention not very balanced.

[Ichon]

The large numbers seem to give ere heavy advantage in auto calc which combined with weak early seljuk roster means ere expands easily. Costs for ere infantry should be raised while pro availability lowered a lot for smaller structures.

[diez]

until the 11-12th century the byzantine army was still superior to other armies,especially when commanded by good generals...the collapse of byzantium was political and economical,which is mostly reflected in later(paleologian,that are not included in the mod) armies...

[el Cid]

Even though they are superior early game, lategame they lose against the plated knights of european nations in my experience. So they might not be so OP as is said.

[Ichon]

Even though they are superior early game, lategame they lose against the plated knights of european nations in my experience. So they might not be so OP as is said.

By that time they are usually controlling 1/5 the map though and Fatimids are more likely to be their nemesis.

I do think ERE and probably a couple other faction should get a mercenary building with some later era heavy plate units added to it. So even if they aren't unique to their roster they have some access in the cities not just in mercenary AORs.

That combined with making large numbers of ERE powerful units available so easily in early era and I think ERE is much better balanced.

[el Cid]

By that time they are usually controlling 1/5 the map though and Fatimids are more likely to be their nemesis.

I do think ERE and probably a couple other faction should get a mercenary building with some later era heavy plate units added to it. So even if they aren't unique to their roster they have some access in the cities not just in mercenary AORs.

That combined with making large numbers of ERE powerful units available so easily in early era and I think ERE is much better balanced.

I agree, though a later 'upgraded' version of the Scoutatoi would also be a viable option.

[Cathedralsquares]

Their late professional units don't scale nearly as well as other nations professional units.

[Galain_Ironhide]

Good strong unit, however I don't think they are over the top in any way. I can use them well, plus if I stuff up I can end up killing plenty too.

[oxxid]

Playing the Turks early era right now, and it's true they're a pain-in-the-*** !

Arrows can hardly harm them even from behind. I usually take several bodyguard units together to get them with spear militias. I'm only at turn 27, so no units can compete at this time.

Edit : Damn, I misunderstood, I thought we were talking about the Scholarii...

[Son of Mars]

I agree with diez, I don't think it's game breaking or anything and Scoutatoi take like 4 turns per unit anyway so they aren't usually spammable.

[Ichon]

I agree with diez, I don't think it's game breaking or anything and Scoutatoi take like 4 turns per unit anyway so they aren't usually spammable.

They are available enough AI gets quite decent numbers in its armies. I don't think the unit on its own is completely unbalanced but the availability and the cost could be changed a bit.

[Dark Lord's Heir]

For me its just the numbers. I toned down their numbers to the size of European armoured sergeants and changed their stats a little so that they were still superior in quality.

[RomanGuy]

The main problem is not that the Romans are too strong but their nearby enemies, mostly the Turks, are too weak. The Turkish roster really needs an overhaul, or at least make some of their better units available sooner. They might even need split into two factions, one the Abbasid Caliphate and the other the Sultanate of Rum, since they currently have a hard time fighting Romans, Khwarezmians, Egyptians, and Crusaders all at once since they are right in the middle and spread out.

[bɑne]

The main problem is not that the Romans are too strong but their nearby enemies, mostly the Turks, are too weak. The Turkish roster really needs an overhaul, or at least make some of their better units available sooner. They might even need split into two factions, one the Abbasid Caliphate and the other the Sultanate of Rum, since they currently have a hard time fighting Romans, Khwarezmians, Egyptians, and Crusaders all at once since they are right in the middle and spread out.

I'm gonna rep you for that one.

[Fotchimus]

The main problem is not that the Romans are too strong but their nearby enemies, mostly the Turks, are too weak. The Turkish roster really needs an overhaul, or at least make some of their better units available sooner. They might even need split into two factions, one the Abbasid Caliphate and the other the Sultanate of Rum, since they currently have a hard time fighting Romans, Khwarezmians, Egyptians, and Crusaders all at once since they are right in the middle and spread out.

I agree with this as well. I don't mind leaving the Byzantines as they are but they really need some form of resistance placed on them by the other factions in order to have a real downfall like they should. Their current neighbors have a joke of a unit roster right now.

[nnnm]

I don't suggest weaken the ERE even one pit, if their neighbor get access to some of their good units early on and the Turks really need better early roster.

[diez]

in the ealry era,byzantines WERE like this!the only thing that can be done is the financial and political problems which are hard to represent in a mod.in the late still they were more powerful than their neighbourgs(only sicilian could be equal cause of the heavy knights),and hungarians lacked mainly the tactics that were requiered(see battle of sirmium).and turks had not the heavy equipments of the romans...the battle of manzikert in my opinion,was lost due to
1)lack of scouts.cause of this they believed that arp arslan was in syria,while he was just some kilometers away.
2)cause of the above,the army was split in 2.the first part went to take a fort on the north.when they saw the turks in front of em they flee,without informing the emperor with the other part.also this part of the army(the one that fled,had the strongest units in it).
3)betrayals.a number of mercenaries who were guarding a pass,when onthe turks side.2nd betrayal.while all the army was retreating in perfect descipline,ioannis doukas(if i am not wrong)who was supposed to cover the retreat of the emperor,escaped and exposed him to attacks,when his bodyguards got flanked and he was captured.ioannis doukas was also a powerful political enemy,and throne claimer.so he spreaded rumors about a huge defeat ,in order to become emperor.also most of units,are mentioned to fight in later battles too,which means casualties were not so high.