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    Default Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

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    Villagers from a violent part of southern Afghanistan say that Afghan troops, along with several American mentors, forced civilians to march ahead of soldiers on roads where the Taliban were believed to have planted bombs and landmines.

    No one was hurt. But if the allegations are true, the act would appear to violate the Geneva Conventions governing the treatment of civilians. The episode also raises questions about how civilians are caught between the two sides in the war.

    The Afghan general in charge of Afghan troops in the Panjwai district, southwest of Kandahar, vehemently denied that any such incident took place. Panjwai's district governor also denied it. Meanwhile, a spokesman for NATO's joint command said the incident is under investigation.

    Villagers' Accounts Of Forced March

    The Panjwai district was a Taliban fortress for years, until the U.S. troop surge in 2010 began to displace the insurgents. At first, the violence spiked, as U.S. and Afghan troops brought the front line through Panjwai and other districts outside Kandahar.

    Now, for the first time in several years, the 20-minute drive out to Panjwai is safe enough for regular traffic. But that doesn't mean the Taliban are gone.

    These days, the Taliban fight with roadside bombs and suicide bombers, says Faizal Mahmud, the deputy head of Panjwai's council of elders. His constituents tell him they feel caught between the insurgents and Afghan government forces with their American allies. Last month that went to extremes, Mahmud told NPR in an interview.

    Mahmud said scores of villagers came to the district meeting hall in Panjwai to complain last month. Along with their village elders, people from the hamlets of Zangabad, Talukan and Mushan all told a similar story. They said Afghan troops, accompanied by American soldiers, pulled them out of their homes one evening in early September.

    Mahmud said the soldiers detained a group of villagers, lined them up and forced them to walk in front of the soldiers for over a mile, through areas believed to be mined by the Taliban. Mahmud's story was corroborated by local residents, including a truck driver from Talukan who goes by one name, Hamidullah.

    "They brought in people from all the villages on the sides of the main paved road. The Taliban had told us not to go through this way because there were a lot of mines. All of the road to the next village was mined. But the soldiers told us to keep walking in front of them," Hamidullah told NPR.

    Other local residents reached by phone told the same story. Ahmad, a 22-year-old man from Zangabad village, said he was also forced to walk through what he believed to be a mined road.

    "They kept telling us to show the mines. We said we didn't know where the Taliban planted mines. Then they told us to move forward to the next village, on the way if anything happens, you are responsible for the consequences. We kept praying, oh, God, save us," Ahmad told NPR.

    Allegations Under Scrutiny

    Col. Daniel J. W. King, a spokesman for NATO's joint command, said an investigation into the incident is under way.

    "We take all allegations of human rights violations very seriously. At this time there is no credible information or evidence to substantiate these claims. It is our top priority to continue to assess the situation, and if any information or evidence does come to light, we'll take the appropriate legal actions," he said, adding that he cannot answer further questions about what is now an ongoing investigation.

    Reporting in Panjwai is still dangerous, which limits the possibility of confirming exactly what took place in the villages and how closely involved international forces may have been.

    Multiple sources have confirmed, however, that on Sept. 18 and 19, a large number of elders from the community did meet at the Panjwai district center, where Afghan and American officials apologized to them for the incident and promised it wouldn't happen again, according to the deputy head of the elder's council, Faizal Mahmud. His boss, the district governor, and the Afghan general in charge deny any such meeting took place. But Mahmud described it in detail to NPR.

    http://www.npr.org/2011/10/20/141518...ds?sc=fb&cc=fp

    If that is true, and US "mentors" approved it (by at least not stopping it) than its very doubtful that they are still even planning to win this war by winning "hearts and minds". It also shows that the current regime in Afghanistan is little different from Taliban at least in the way they treat civilians.

  2. #2
    ♔Jean-Luc Picard♔'s Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    Ah, the approval by non-action argument. Mentors are not necessarily superior officers to the Afghani troops so it could very well be that they had no say in the matter. Just because no action is takes does not mean approval was given.

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    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    That certainly doesn't help. Hopefully the US mentors had nothing to do with this.

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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralle18 View Post
    That certainly doesn't help. Hopefully the US mentors had nothing to do with this.
    If they were, or at least it was in their power to stop the abuse of civilians while they did not, it would definitely reduce the legitimacy of the war.

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    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    Quote Originally Posted by Broseph Stalin View Post
    If they were, or at least it was in their power to stop the abuse of civilians while they did not, it would definitely reduce the legitimacy of the war.
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    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    Quote Originally Posted by Broseph Stalin View Post
    If they were, or at least it was in their power to stop the abuse of civilians while they did not, it would definitely reduce the legitimacy of the war.
    No it wouldn't. It woud mean some US soldiers should be facing court martials.


    Anyway, NATO is investigating this and no one was hurt. So far it's all a lot of accusations and speculations.
    Last edited by Tiberios; October 20, 2011 at 09:59 AM.

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    ♔Jean-Luc Picard♔'s Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    Another point. A road where there might be bombs planted in no way equals a bloody minefield. Its like comparing a one lane gravel road to Interstate 40.

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔Jean-Luc Picard♔ View Post
    Another point. A road where there might be bombs planted in no way equals a bloody minefield. Its like comparing a one lane gravel road to Interstate 40.
    Doesn't change the fact that they were using unarmed civilians to trigger bombs.

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    ♔Jean-Luc Picard♔'s Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    Quote Originally Posted by Broseph Stalin View Post
    Doesn't change the fact that they were using unarmed civilians to trigger bombs.
    What bombs? According to your story none went off. At this point the story itself is total speculation and has no idea what they were really up to much less using the people as bomb bait.

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  10. #10

    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔Jean-Luc Picard♔ View Post
    What bombs? According to your story none went off. At this point the story itself is total speculation and has no idea what they were really up to much less using the people as bomb bait.
    Why else would they force civilians to march ahead of them along the road, where Taliban could supposedly plant bombs and told them not to use it because of that?

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    I WUB PUGS's Avatar OOH KILL 'EM
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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    Haha, ignorant civilians, you have no idea what's really going on over there, and I won't bother talking about it because it's impossible to source and that's all the internet generation cares about.

    Like one "possible" instance is indicative of the whole war effort....................poor argument.

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    Eofor's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    Quote Originally Posted by I WUB PUGS View Post
    Haha, ignorant civilians, you have no idea what's really going on over there, and I won't bother talking about it because it's impossible to source and that's all the internet generation cares about
    Indeed, why do we want to be able to verify information for ourselves? I much prefer unproved anecdotes posted by random people on a computer game fansite.

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    I WUB PUGS's Avatar OOH KILL 'EM
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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    Quote Originally Posted by Concillius View Post
    Indeed, why do we want to be able to verify information for ourselves? I much prefer unproved anecdotes posted by random people on a computer game fansite.
    You don't even need anecdotes or internet articles. All you need to know is a history of Afghanistan. Learn about it's culture, tribes, the tribal laws, and pay attention to the handful of stories about Afghan honchos being killed by rivals.

    Since when is NATO "handling" the Afghan troops? Sure there are combined ops, but the ANA, ANP and ABP have their own missions and are not constrained by western rules of war. If they want to march civilians into a minefield, I wouldn't be surprised, but it has nothing to do with "NATO Handlers" unless the NATO troops are the ones forcing the march.

    You can't form a blanket statement about "Hearts and Minds" by citing one unverified news article.

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    Eofor's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    Quote Originally Posted by I WUB PUGS View Post
    You don't even need anecdotes or internet articles. All you need to know is a history of Afghanistan. Learn about it's culture, tribes, the tribal laws, and pay attention to the handful of stories about Afghan honchos being killed by rivals.

    Since when is NATO "handling" the Afghan troops? Sure there are combined ops, but the ANA, ANP and ABP have their own missions and are not constrained by western rules of war. If they want to march civilians into a minefield, I wouldn't be surprised, but it has nothing to do with "NATO Handlers" unless the NATO troops are the ones forcing the march.

    You can't form a blanket statement about "Hearts and Minds" by citing one unverified news article.
    What the hell are you talking about? I didn't show any support for the OP's opinions and only posted a sarcastic response to your moronic quip about how all the internet generation cares about is sources.
    And yes, I and many others ask for sources, because we want to verify information for ourselves rather than just taking the words of a stranger online at face value.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    What did you expect? They are being trained by the US after all...

  16. #16
    Claudius Gothicus's Avatar Petit Burgués
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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    All I read is a lot of ''possibles'' and ''maybes'' not something to really argue over. Yet the NATO commanders are willing to talk about the issue and investigate it without outrightly denying it... I guess that shows their level of actual accountability.

    Not to mention you are being misleading from minute one, with the thread title.

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    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    These guys seem like Taliban sympathisers anyway. The Taliban were nice enough to tell them there were mines up the road but when the ANA ask them where they are they don't know.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
    - John Adams, on the White House, in a letter to Abigail Adams (2 November 1800)

  18. #18

    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    These guys seem like Taliban sympathisers anyway. The Taliban were nice enough to tell them there were mines up the road but when the ANA ask them where they are they don't know.
    So that justifys using them as a bomb bait?

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    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    Ah Afghanistan. How life has so little value.




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    Default Re: Afghan civilians forced by Afghan troops to march over minefields

    those who vote for karzai please stay here and insert your vote into the box. those who vote for opposition, please put your vote into the box over there on the other side of this field.

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