Jehovah's Witnesses

[Major König]

Is anyone a Jehovah's Witness here? I recently started to study with them, though I wouldn't consider myself one. Anyone's thoughts on them?

[Oldgamer]

Is anyone a Jehovah's Witness here? I recently started to study with them, though I wouldn't consider myself one. Anyone's thoughts on them?

Aside from the "visits" at my front door ... which I heartily detest ... the JW are generally regarded as a cult. A cult can be defined as a religious organization whose doctrine differs significantly from the parent religion, is heavily based upon the personality of its founder, and whose writings are considered to be of equal value to the scriptures of the parent religion ... in this case, Christianity.

One thing that you need to understand is about the bible studies. In the JW, indoctrination is a relentless and mind-numbing thing. It never lets up. The bible studies are the chief method of indoctrination.

You need to do some in-depth reading on the web of ex-Witness sites, before you go to another meeting. Some of the stories are shocking, to say the least that could be said.

The following is a good link: http://members.aol.com/Beyondjw/bj.htm#GENERAL

[Pallida Mors]

My experience was reading a 'watchtower' magazine with them. The thing I noticed and refuted was that they take parts of one verse and 'pasted' it together with the latter half of another verse from other books and made it to be the same thing. Completely distorting its meanings. I'm sure that if someone took various parts of sentences that I've written in this forum, they could make me out to be a murderer when I'm clearly not.

[vizi]

Aside from the "visits" at my front door ... which I heartily detest ... the JW are generally regarded as a cult.

I hate those door to door visits. They stopped when they woke me up at 9 in the morning after a hard night of drinking. I was wrapped up in a blanket and when I opened the door and saw them I told them I worship satan and that they can burn in hell and slammed the door on them. They have not come back yet so I think it might have worked.

Beyond that I don't really like them and I think on the 4th of July I am gonna gather those mini american flags and plant them all over there property.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

I told them I worship satan and that they can burn in hell and slammed the door on them. They have not come back yet so I think it might have worked.

It does .
I think they keep a record on people so they can stay away from "evil" people.
I told them I was a satanist as well and they haven't visited me since.

[Sétanta]

Aside from the "visits" at my front door ... which I heartily detest ... the JW are generally regarded as a cult.

Thats exactly how I see them too.

Of course Scientologists and Mormons can be seen that way too

[vizi]

It does .
I think they keep a record on people so they can stay away from "evil" people.
I told them I was a satanist as well and they haven't visited me since.

Im suprised they believed me, I was still quite trashed when I opened the door and felt like I had been hit by a truck.

[Caleus_Chronicus]

I was one untill about ten or twelve years old. DO NOT join them, there are a cult who protect
child molesters and the members are are produced so they can become mindless indoctornated slaves.
They can be nice, but ignorance is bliss

I only thank my parents for not being hardcore JWs, I remeber a story about a JW couple that
beat their eleven year old girl to death with extension cords for disobedience.
Their founder was a wife beater(who wasn't back then) and an alcoholic, who based his prophecies on the demensions of the great pyrimids chambers
They have been involed with the U.N and with the goverment(something they say they arn't supposed to be doing) and they made profits from shares in the manufacturer's of the army's predator engine's.

They takes scriptures and put them in their context, instead of the reader's.

[RZZZA]

Million year old jevohas witness joke comin' at you:

*Jehovas Witness knocks on door*

*Door opens, you stand there slightly annoyed by the interruption*

Jehovas Witness: Hello there friend! It's a beautiful day today, isn't it? God bless us all, neighbor, would you like to let Jesus into your home?

You: Uhh...well, sure Jesus can come in, but you people need to stay outside.

*slam door*


I actually had a jehovas witness give me a free childrens bible once. They did their part in pushing me away from christianity, and for that I thank them. The color pictures where nice though, good reading for while youre on the can.

[DimeBagHo]

Aside from the "visits" at my front door ... which I heartily detest ... the JW are generally regarded as a cult. A cult can be defined as a religious organization whose doctrine differs significantly from the parent religion, is heavily based upon the personality of its founder, and whose writings are considered to be of equal value to the scriptures of the parent religion ... in this case, Christianity.

By those standards the JWs are not a cult. They barely mention either of their main founders, and typically show no interest in them at all, and the only writings they regard as authoritative are the canonical books of bible. As for "doctrine [that] differs significantly from the parent religion" wouldn't this qualify every variety of Christianity and Islam as a cult (they all have significant doctrinal differences from Judaism)?

[Fenris]

A lot of money must be invested in the movement (it's money or work, like going door to door anonoying people). basically the JW have a very primitive way of interpreting the bible, they don't think, they just believe in what's literally written in the bible. Ask any theologian or anyone who have made studies in theology, they will tell you that the bible is not a book to be taken literally at all.

[Oldgamer]

By those standards the JWs are not a cult. They barely mention either of their main founders, and typically show no interest in them at all, and the only writings they regard as authoritative are the canonical books of bible. As for "doctrine [that] differs significantly from the parent religion" wouldn't this qualify every variety of Christianity and Islam as a cult (they all have significant doctrinal differences from Judaism)?

JW differs significantly from mainstream Christianity, in that there is a a consensus between churches Catholic and Protestant about what the faith consists of. The JW's do not believe in these doctrines, holding, instead, that Jesus was simply a man, albeit a "better man" than others, and therefore, His Sacrifice on the Cross is not a salutary Atonement for the sins of the human race.

Concerning Russell, the founder of the Jehovah's Witness movement, the fellow goes so far astray from orthodox Christianity that it's hard to notice how his movement has any relationship to it. And then, there's the "Miracle Wheat". And then, there's the man (Russell) who claimed to have translated the Bible accurately from the Greek, but couldn't identify a single letter of the Greek alphabet on a witness stand, when he sued a man named Ross for libel. Then, there's the Pyramidology, the astrology, and everything else. Russell was not a sterling example of a prophet, in my estimation.

It might be that the JW's don't mention Russell much, except among themselves, because of the man's shadyness.

Christianity and Islam are derived from Judaism, but they are distinct and separate religions, today. Your characterization of the religions as "cults" doesn't stand that test.

By the way, I'm very careful about identifying any group as a cult, because there is a strict definition of the term. Besides, calling a group a cult can engender hatred, and even violence, against the members of the group. But there are almost no Christian groups that don't include the Jehovah's Witnesses in any list of cult organizations.

I grew up in the Church of the Nazarene, which, at the time I was a child, had about 400,000 members worldwide, and had originally broken off of the old Methodist Church (not to be confused with the United Methodist Church). A Nazarene minister named Fisher wrote a book which was entitled Why I am a Nazarene, and had various subtitles, which all started with "And not a ______". All the groups he was "not", he identified as cults, and included most of the Christian world, including the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches. I was taught in Sunday School that the Pope wore a mitre to cover his horns. I was taught that people who didn't believe as Nazarenes believed, at the time, would all end up in Hell. This is a terribly limited view of the faith, and is exclusive to the "-nth degree".

I will be arguing for the use of a term other than "cult" for groups that have deviated significantly from the mainstream of the faith. The main reason for this is that I want to avoid the stigma attached to the use of the word "cult". The JW's, for all the doctrinal deviation, are a people dedicated to their view of God, and willing to suffer some of the worst persecution imaginable for their faith.

This is why I never slam a door in their face ...

@Squeakus Maximus

"there was a time"? What's the tactic now then?

A smile, a few friendly words with them about the weather, and a polite but firm refusal to invite them in or take any of their literature.

@DimeBagHo

That one gave me a good laugh. Sounds like the early christians ****** people off just as much as the JWs do today.

Very true. In those days, Christianity was merely a splinter group off of Judaism, and ticked off a lot of people. By the standards that I applied earlier, they were a Jewish cult.

[DimeBagHo]

JW differs significantly from mainstream Christianity, in that there is a a consensus between churches Catholic and Protestant about what the faith consists of.

The various christian sects devoted considerable effort to trying, literally, to kill each other off precisely because they disagreeed over the fundamental tenents of the christian faith. They still disagree over issues like whether it is possible to be saved through an act of free will, or whether salvation is pre-ordained by God for some and not for others. By and large Christians have given up arguing about this kind of thing, but only because they got tired of killing each other, not because they arrived at any kind of agreement.

The JW's do not believe in these doctrines, holding, instead, that Jesus was simply a man, albeit a "better man" than others, and therefore, His Sacrifice on the Cross is not a salutary Atonement for the sins of the human race.

I think you have the JWs confused with some other religion. They believe that Jesus was divine, they just don't believe that he was God. He is another of God's creations like Satan, or the other Angels. And they certainly do believe that his death was a sacrifice sufficient to pay for all of mankind's sins.

Concerning Russell, the founder of the Jehovah's Witness movement, the fellow goes so far astray from orthodox Christianity that it's hard to notice how his movement has any relationship to it. And then, there's the "Miracle Wheat". And then, there's the man (Russell) who claimed to have translated the Bible accurately from the Greek, but couldn't identify a single letter of the Greek alphabet on a witness stand, when he sued a man named Ross for libel. Then, there's the Pyramidology, the astrology, and everything else. Russell was not a sterling example of a prophet, in my estimation.

No doubt. He sounds like a kook to me. But my point was that the JWs generally could care less about Russell. They are not like the Mormons who make a big deal out of Joseph Smith.

Christianity and Islam are derived from Judaism, but they are distinct and separate religions, today. Your characterization of the religions as "cults" doesn't stand that test.

So this whole cult thing just boils down to the JWs not "distinguishing" themselves sufficiently from other Christian sects? Different but not different enough?

[Oldgamer]

The various christian sects devoted considerable effort to trying, literally, to kill each other off precisely because they disagreeed over the fundamental tenents of the christian faith. They still disagree over issues like whether it is possible to be saved through an act of free will, or whether salvation is pre-ordained by God for some and not for others. By and large Christians have given up arguing about this kind of thing, but only because they got tired of killing each other, not because they arrived at any kind of agreement.

Could there be any greater animosity among Christian sects than that which existed in the 16th Century between Catholics and Lutherans? But now, as the movement has matured, there is an uneasy but friendly relationship between both. And I don't think it was solely the "getting tired of killing each other" factor. They have arrived at an agreement, that on the basics of the faith, they are identical. I have been both a Catholic and a Lutheran, and the faith is ... in its essentials ... the same.

I think you have the JWs confused with some other religion. They believe that Jesus was divine, they just don't believe that he was God. He is another of God's creations like Satan, or the other Angels. And they certainly do believe that his death was a sacrifice sufficient to pay for all of mankind's sins.

Look at their website. They believe in a system of works, that is, that the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross was not salutary or sufficient. And believing that Jesus is just another of God's creations puts them at odds with 2 billion Christians in the world. Thousands of denominations, literally, agree that Jesus is co-existant and co-powerful with God.

So this whole cult thing just boils down to the JWs not "distinguishing" themselves sufficiently from other Christian sects? Different but not different enough?

Not at all. The "cult" thing boils down to their being significantly different from Christianity. So much so, that there is a serious question about their movement even being Christian.

This is why I brought up the dangers of using the term "cult", earlier. There are places and people in the world who would literally kill because of JW doctrine. They are misguided, certainly, because they have lost sight of the Judeo-Christian belief in the Ten Commandments, which forbids murder. But it already has happened, can happen, and will happen, in the future.

[Valerius Maximus]

cult, religious fanatics...annoying at the front door and by phone, one ef em called me bout a week ago with his sales pitch...

[~Alexander~]

Only Yankees from usa, and arabs and perhaps some millions of "people" believe in god.
lol sound like a ban ahahhaha

Please keep the comments and posts Civil - LV

[Fenris]

Is anyone a Jehovah's Witness here? I recently started to study with them, though I wouldn't consider myself one. Anyone's thoughts on them?

The father of one of my friend is one. I can safely tell you that I despise them a lot. I consider JW as jokes, but a real and serious one, unfortunately.

[Major König]

I did not think they were anything like a cult. Pallida Mors, either me and you have totally different witness experiences, or i'm crazy. The watchtower was pretty good in explaining things i thought. They seem like normal people following the bible more than lets say, Catholics. They seem really into Jesus and god, and that attracted me. They were cool and down to Earth.

[Pallida Mors]

I did not think they were anything like a cult. Pallida Mors, either me and you have totally different witness experiences, or i'm crazy. The watchtower was pretty good in explaining things i thought. They seem like normal people following the bible more than lets say, Catholics. They seem really into Jesus and god, and that attracted me. They were cool and down to Earth.

Its quite possible that they have changed. Have you researched what they believe is different from traditional christianity, and why you may or may not like it? If I remember correctly they think Jesus was a perfect man, but they think that he was the archangel Michael before he came to earth. They think that Jesus Christ is "a god" but not "the God." They teach that Jesus "was and is and always will be beneath Jehovah" and that "Christ and God are not coequal". (JWbible John 1:1)

In the traditional bible John 10:30 Jesus claims "I and the Father are one". The bible clearly teaches that Christ is God. There is a contradiciton in what the JW teaches vs. what the traditional bible states regarding the deity of Christ. Like I said they could have changed, I think I heard something about them reorganizing.

[Tom Paine]

As can large numbers of other such groups. Is it so inaccurate?