Understanding Christianity

[mongoose]

Lately, something has been bothering me about Christianity. I've heard people say "Jesus died for your sins, and thus made it possible for you to go to heaven".

How does the fact that we made some one die cure of us of any sins? Why does God suddenly get more mercyful after seeing his son die? You could argue that it was after he knew what it was like to be human, but isn't God supposed to be all knowing?

I think this is another one of those cases where Christianty would, IMO, make more sense if God wasn't perfect.

So, is there something wrong with Christianity, or am I simply not understanding something?

[I Have a Clever Name]

I think this is another one of those cases where Christianty would, IMO, make more sense if God wasn't perfect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurean_paradox

It sure would.

[Zenith Darksea]

For goodness' sake, those paradoxes still don't make any sense. You yourself admitted as much.

[Chiron202]

The question you posed is a contantly debated theological question. In fact it is the main question of Soteriology, which studies these theories of atonement, the work of Christ. Or "how is salvation mande possible?" and "how is salvation itself to be understood?" You have expressed the lay understanding of the sacrificial aspect of the whole deal, but believe me there is much more to it, and even then there are competeing, and sometimes complementary ways of understanding salvation. Anyway... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soteriology I hope the christian section helps a little bit. I would put down some excerpts from my Theology texts if it weren't such a bother to do so. But Believe me, you are vastly over-simplifying the whole concept.

[ZaPPPa]

God can snap his fingers and bring anyone back to life. If I were God, I wouldn't have made such a big deal out of it.... Drama queen!

[Farnan]

Lately, something has been bothering me about Christianity. I've heard people say "Jesus died for your sins, and thus made it possible for you to go to heaven".

How does the fact that we made some one die cure of us of any sins? Why does God suddenly get more mercyful after seeing his son die? You could argue that it was after he knew what it was like to be human, but isn't God supposed to be all knowing?

I think this is another one of those cases where Christianty would, IMO, make more sense if God wasn't perfect.

So, is there something wrong with Christianity, or am I simply not understanding something?

In ancient Judaism the high priest would sacrifice a sheep every year for the sins of Israel. Jesus was the perfect sheep whose sacrifice was abale to forgive the sins of the world for all those who accept him. Jesus also was human and went through all a human had to and perserved, if he didn't go through the tribulations he would not have been a perfect sheep nor would he have been able to effectively teach humans how they should try to live.

[DarkKnight]

In ancient Judaism the high priest would sacrifice a sheep every year for the sins of Israel. Jesus was the perfect sheep whose sacrifice was abale to forgive the sins of the world for all those who accept him. Jesus also was human and went through all a human had to and perserved, if he didn't go through the tribulations he would not have been a perfect sheep nor would he have been able to effectively teach humans how they should try to live.

That doesn't answer the question.

How does the fact that we made some one die cure of us of any sins? Why does God suddenly get more mercyful after seeing his son die?

You pointed out the origins of why its done. But the OP is asking how does dying cure sins?

[mongoose]

In ancient Judaism the high priest would sacrifice a sheep every year for the sins of Israel. Jesus was the perfect sheep whose sacrifice was abale to forgive the sins of the world for all those who accept him. Jesus also was human and went through all a human had to and perserved, if he didn't go through the tribulations he would not have been a perfect sheep nor would he have been able to effectively teach humans how they should try to live.

But how does that make sense? I know that you could kill a sheep to redeem your sins, but how is that supposed to work? It's not the sheep's fault that you stole/lied/what ever. T

I think that Lord Rahls version makes more sense, and is one that I would have an easier time acepting(Jesus dying was proof that God was ready to do anything to forgive people).

But another problem is that the plan didn't really work.There are still people who believe in other Gods, and there are still people who believe in the same God, and yet they still don't acept Jesus. So what was the point of Jesus dying, if only those who are faithful worship him?

So, obviously, Jesus was part of God starting to forgive people, but not the cause of it.



Thank you for the replies.

[Lord Rahl]

But how does that make sense? I know that you could kill a sheep to redeem your sins, but how is that supposed to work? It's not the sheep's fault that you stole/lied/what ever.

I believe animal sacrifice was a pagan ritual that the Jews picked up. It probably seemed like a very reasonable thing to do. Sacrifice an animal, say prayers, and God will forgive. But God said that He didn't and doesn't need us to sacrifice animals in order to please Him.

But another problem is that the plan didn't really work.There are still people who believe in other Gods, and there are still people who believe in the same God, and yet they still don't acept Jesus. So what was the point of Jesus dying, if only those who are faithful worship him?

So, obviously, Jesus was part of God starting to forgive people, but not the cause of it.

How didn't the plan work? There will always be beliefs in other gods until Jesus comes back and pwns the world. There were before Jesus Christ and there were and still are. God's intention isn't to force everyone to believe. God has given us a choice to believe or not. The ultimate purpose for Christ's death was to relieve anyone who decides to believe in Him of their sins. It doesn't matter if you're a murderer or if you are a pastor. All sin is the same and the death of Christ was enough to wash away the sins of everyone. All one must do is believe that Jesus did that for them. You are right. Jesus's death wasn't the cause of forgiveness. It was more like the big finale that everyone remembers.

And yet if free will causes evil and God can end free will, if free will means men turn from God and force him to damn them, why would God want free will?

Free will doesn't cause evil anymore than video games cause someone to be a nerd. Evil causes evil within free will. Free will lets you choose if you want evil but it doesn't cause it. God wants free will because He does not want to hold an iron grip on what we do for every second of our pitiful human lives.

[Tom Paine]

Free will doesn't cause evil anymore than video games cause someone to be a nerd. Evil causes evil within free will. Free will lets you choose if you want evil but it doesn't cause it. God wants free will because He does not want to hold an iron grip on what we do for every second of our pitiful human lives.

Without free will we cannot commit evil; without free will, therefore, there is no evil...

[DarkKnight]

Without free will we cannot commit evil; without free will, therefore, there is no evil...

Well...unless God chooses for us that we commit evil, but then God isn't omnibenevolent.

There were temporal punsihments you had to deal with also. Like if you stole something you had to repay the other man twice (or four times) the amount you stole. You sacrificed the sheep as a way of showing you truly wanted forgiveness and weren't just going through the motions. You wouldn't burn a thousand dollars if you didn't care would you?

I also wouldn't give away $1000 if I didn't care. Either way I am out the same amount of money. To me it makes no difference whether I burn or give away the money. But to the person I wronged, either they get nothing or they get $1000. Why the hell would you be selfish enough to burn the $1000 when you could give it to the person.

Also don't you think it is odd that the omnipotent God must use that inhumane method to absolve sins?

[Farnan]

But how does that make sense? I know that you could kill a sheep to redeem your sins, but how is that supposed to work? It's not the sheep's fault that you stole/lied/what ever.

At that time in history, sheep were a measure of wealth. By sacrificing a sheep you were giving up part of your wealth. Its kind of the same as telling someone to burn a thousand dollars.

[mongoose]

At that time in history, sheep were a measure of wealth. By sacrificing a sheep you were giving up part of your wealth. Its kind of the same as telling someone to burn a thousand dollars.

Shouldn't you purify yourself by giving the sheep to the people you hurt, rather then just cutting its throat? How does hurting yourself help absolve you of sin?

[Farnan]

Shouldn't you purify yourself by giving the sheep to the people you hurt, rather then just cutting its throat? How does hurting yourself help absolve you of sin?

There were temporal punsihments you had to deal with also. Like if you stole something you had to repay the other man twice (or four times) the amount you stole. You sacrificed the sheep as a way of showing you truly wanted forgiveness and weren't just going through the motions. You wouldn't burn a thousand dollars if you didn't care would you?

[RazorOutlaw]

If anything that explain the symbolism behind Christ's sacrifice...not that I didn't know that.

[Lord Rahl]

Lately, something has been bothering me about Christianity. I've heard people say "Jesus died for your sins, and thus made it possible for you to go to heaven".

How does the fact that we made some one die cure of us of any sins? Why does God suddenly get more mercyful after seeing his son die? You could argue that it was after he knew what it was like to be human, but isn't God supposed to be all knowing?

I think this is another one of those cases where Christianty would, IMO, make more sense if God wasn't perfect.

So, is there something wrong with Christianity, or am I simply not understanding something?

Farnan answered the question quite well but since some of ya'll want it explained another way I will.

Since earlier we had to sacrifice animals for our sin God chose to make Himself a son who would be God and yet at the same time be human as well. So, in a sense God showed us that He would sacrifice His own blood for our sins. That is why you may hear people say that Jesus was the ultimate "sacrificial lamb". Instead of us sacrificing for God's forgiveness God sent His only son to die for us so that our sins would already be forgiven. God is all knowing but since when does anyone know what He is thinking and what His intentions are? I don't have all the answers and neither does a priest, pastor, or even the Pope. That is why people go to church, to learn. We don't have all the answers so we strive to learn more so that we may begin to have the answers for more and more.

[Zenith Darksea]

There are people who choose to accept other religions, but if everyone was forced to accept Jesus' sacrifice, then there wouldn't be much free will to speak of, would there?

[Tom Paine]

There are people who choose to accept other religions, but if everyone was forced to accept Jesus' sacrifice, then there wouldn't be much free will to speak of, would there?

And yet if free will causes evil and God can end free will, if free will means men turn from God and force him to damn them, why would God want free will?

[Pallida Mors]

And yet if free will causes evil and God can end free will, if free will means men turn from God and force him to damn them, why would God want free will?

Because I think God wants us to choose him, but I fail to understand why God gives us the option. "US" the majority throughout history w/o divine revelation. It reminds me of having an imaginary lover. One of whom the only evidence I have is love letters. I never get to meet my lover, sometimes I think I can feel the love portayed through the letters. But never really get to experience it. I can get caught up in the infatuated feeling that come with love, but its still only one sided. Thats what the bible seems like to me. I might as well be in love with Alizee, I'll never hear from either of them.

[Zenith Darksea]

And yet if free will causes evil and God can end free will, if free will means men turn from God and force him to damn them, why would God want free will?

The reason is that denying humankind the freedom to choose between good and evil would be an evil in itself. For those who choose the good path, whatever evil is done to them in this life will be inconsequential (because once they are re-united with God it won't matter anymore what happened to them), and those who choose the other path have been given the opportunity to make their own decision.