The Praxeology and Ethics of Traffic Lights

[Enemy of the State]

http://mises.org/daily/4745



For those who don't want to read or watch the video, a junction in Britain abolished traffic lights. Congestion is gone. People get across even better than before. Spontaneous order instantly emerged. This really isn't surprising to me. This serves to prove the Austrian understanding of the nature of man. We're naturally cooperative and empathetic. Suck on it, Hobbes.

So, why do we need traffic lights? Or any road regulations?

[KnightsTemplar]

I think one of the reasons, is 'retard-proof'.
Y'know, people sometimes screws up.

Also, what about the disabilities?

[Denny Crane!]

http://mises.org/daily/4745



For those who don't want to read or watch the video, a junction in Britain abolished traffic lights. Congestion is gone. People get across even better than before. Spontaneous order instantly emerged. This really isn't surprising to me. This serves to prove the Austrian understanding of the nature of man. We're naturally cooperative and empathetic. Suck on it, Hobbes.

So, why do we need traffic lights? Or any road regulations?

Can you explain why then, why sweet jesus, councils in the north east are abolishing every single small roundabout and zebra crossing and replacing them with lights? This is being done at a tremendous rate and is causing real traffic.

A journey up to my parents through Newcastle used to be a breeze, relatively easy even in rush hour. Two additions of lights in Newcastle and in a village on the way has bumped that up from a 30-45 minute journey in rush hour to a potential 2 hour journey at rush hour.

Absolute madness.

As for disabled people every driver respects Zebra crossings.

I think one of the reasons, is 'retard-proof'.
Y'know, people sometimes screws up.

Also, what about the disabilities?

People screw up with or without lights, the difference is one of congestion and has there been a load of accidents? No. Use the empirical evidence otherwise it is just fear mongering.

As for disabled, zebra crossings as said above.

I like roundabouts, you can't dash across the road at intersections.

Whatever method works best at maintaining the lowest amount of crashes while maintaining the highest flow of traffic.

[Condottiere 40K]

I like roundabouts, you can't dash across the road at intersections.

[Prosaic Visitant]

Whatever method works best at maintaining the lowest amount of crashes while maintaining the highest flow of traffic.

[Mythos]

Baghdad. Quite some sportaneous order, right? Suck on it...Austria?

[Condottiere 40K]

Could be a guy with a bomb.

[Col. Tartleton]

All you need are stop signs to remind people to stop before they look and go. 4 way rotation works fine. Just because it's not always obvious where you need to stop.

[Sphere]

From what I understand, the UK doesn't use the concept of the flashing yellow like the US does. Intersections in the US are programed to turn to flashing yellow and flashing red (yellow means you have the right of way, red is the equivilent of a stop sign), during off peak hours.

It is an efficient system when there is low traffic, but it also prevents chaos during peak hours. I still don't understand why it hasn't caught on in the UK.

[Condottiere 40K]

I was under the impression that flashing yellow means go but look around first, whereas yellow but itself is accelerate.

[Hounf of Culan]

I was under the impression that flashing yellow means go but look around first, whereas yellow but itself is accelerate.

Legally a solid yellow in the US means you have to decelerate and come to a stop but most people, myself included, try and shoot through yellows. Red is an absolute stop.

[Mr.Mad]

Legally a solid yellow in the US means you have to decelerate and come to a stop but most people, myself included, try and shoot through yellows. Red is an absolute stop.

It always feels like a challenge. I see the yellow and feel it...taunting me, daring me to tempt fate and see if I can make it fast. Damn light.

Flashing yellow during night time or early morning does denote that you can pretty much drive on through, as long as you pay attention to the general rules of the road and such.

[SLN445]

Cant watch the video, i presume they replaced the lights with a roundabout?

[skh1]

So, why do we need traffic lights? Or any road regulations?

They're pretty to look at.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[G-Megas-Doux]

Traffic lights are so frustrating. I do prefer roundabouts it is the best for traffic flow and if you put a zebra crossing near them it works better than traffic lights and crossing points because people wont have to wait an unreasonable amount of time. In the area I live in the local authority spent the last few years putting traffic lights on roundabouts it is very frustrating and infuriating.

[Armenum]

May work in a small town, where people are patient, but definitely won't work in a larger city where people are rushing and not the most patient drivers.

[Claudius Gothicus]

http://mises.org/daily/4745



For those who don't want to read or watch the video, a junction in Britain abolished traffic lights. Congestion is gone. People get across even better than before. Spontaneous order instantly emerged. This really isn't surprising to me. This serves to prove the Austrian understanding of the nature of man. We're naturally cooperative and empathetic. Suck on it, Hobbes.

So, why do we need traffic lights? Or any road regulations?

A hundred bucks said town couldn't even create a traffic jam if all the drivers got togheter in the main street. Plus, said towns do not have a ''Rush Hour''.

Please, spare the Bullcrap. It's pretty obvious traffic lights were cretaed for a reason, try going back to the good ole days of no-traffic lights in major cities like NY and get run over by a trolley.

[Denny Crane!]

A hundred bucks said town couldn't even create a traffic jam if all the drivers got togheter in the main street. Plus, said towns do not have a ''Rush Hour''.

Please, spare the Bullcrap. It's pretty obvious traffic lights were cretaed for a reason, try going back to the good ole days of no-traffic lights in major cities like NY and get run over by a trolley.

One group is interested in empirical evidence and testing to see what works in traffic control instead of just random assumptions.

The other group just makes random assertions and isn't interested in empirical evidence and tests and working off those tests (pssst raise your hand that's you).

[Claudius Gothicus]

One group is interested in empirical evidence and testing to see what works in traffic control instead of just random assumptions.

No, one group is interested in making hyperbolic statements so that individuals believe their retrograde ideology on the basis of non-related events that are not a real justification for their actual ideas.

The other group just makes random assertions

It's not a random assertion, as someone else has posted try eliminating Traffic Lights in a major city and see all hell breaks loose... or what do you believe that happens when traffic cops are left on their own during a System Failure of the Lights?

and isn't interested in empirical evidence and tests and working off those tests

This is not empirical evidence which we are talking about, this is wild hyperbolic assumptions that we are talking about.

Testing what the OP wants is not necessary and totally irrelevant too. Urban Planners, if lef to do their job correctly, will solve traffic problems by organizing well coordinated Lights systems, not some sort of ''free-for-all'' car rampage.

(pssst raise your hand that's you).

Yep that's me, someone who doesn't fall for hyperbole.

[Denny Crane!]

No, one group is interested in making hyperbolic statements so that individuals believe their retrograde ideology on the basis of non-related events that are not in no way a justification for their real arguments.

No. We tried an experiment it worked, lets try it again. Instead of randomly spending money on traffic lights where it might not be appropriate.

It's not a random assertion, as someone else has posted try eliminating Traffic Lights in a major city and see all hell breaks loose... or what do you believe that happens when traffic cops are left on their own during a System Failure of the Lights?

Or how about investigating it on a small scale and gathering evidence instead of this random crap talking that IS NOT based on evidence. If it is then fine traffic lights are appropriate for "that" situation.

What is wrong with experimentation?

This is not empirical evidence which we are talking about, this is wild hyperbolic assumptions that we are talking about.

They tested it, it worked.

Testing what the OP wants is not necessary and irrelevant, Urban Planners, if lef to do their job correctly, will solve traffic problems by organizing well coordinated Lights systems, not some sort of ''free-for-all'' car rampage.

OK I've directly bore witness to traffic light systems causing more than a 100% delay in my routes, other scenarios where a friend who is a driving instructor having to contact city planning to get them to correct their planning, another friend who works in Newcastle City Councils department has explicitly stated that there is no definite decision making process or planning process behind changes. This is more than apparent in the crapstorm that is the UKs traffic system.

Do you think I'm a liar? I'm not sure if I can access traffic data for the specific areas but if you deem my words unworthy I'll give it a go.

Oh wait you were talking about "Urban Planners" this isn't even relevant to my country, we have local councillors who can effect change like this who could quite easily have an IQ of 90 and no experience in planning roads at all.

http://www.seered.co.uk/trafficsignal.htm

Yep that's me, someone who doesn't fall for hyperbole.

Apparently doesn't like experimentation and cause and effect studies either.