Walls in siege battles

**Kaidonni** · October 15, 2011, 02:58 PM

Okay, I've just rage quit a large battle because I cannot believe my eyes. My men evaporate into thin air when engaging an enemy unit while also being at least partially in a tower. Usually, emerging from the entrance to a tower and engaging the enemy unit nearby. They drop like flies. An entire unit can be obliterated in seconds... Not a siege tower, but a tower on the walls themselves. It's ridiculous, one moment they are evenly matched, the next they've all but been destroyed and routing.

Is this a well-known bug? That's what it is, a bug, because there's no way any of my men can drop like flies THAT fast. Most of the men aren't even fighting. They're definitely not falling off the walls.

**Harabec** · October 15, 2011, 06:53 PM

The path-finding up on the walls and entering/leaving towers causes bugs like that.

It is a hard-coded problem with M2:TW so don't think there is much to do about it.

**Kaidonni** · October 16, 2011, 05:52 AM

Thanks, glad it's not just me going mad.

Just as well I ragequit, anyway. Now I can figure out how to avoid this bug with all the time in the day, and not fight a battle at night with very little time (in real life - the battle itself shall be fought at night, not that it makes much difference, the enemy already have 10 command stars, I'll have 8). It's just annoying when equally matched melees end with my units obliterated for no reason. I've played enough siege battles to know that the enemy fights to the death on the walls in many cases, and my units stick in there until they've finished the job.

**Byg** · October 16, 2011, 03:36 PM

Interesting. I have never encountered this. Literally "in seconds", or are you exaggerating?

**Kaidonni** · October 16, 2011, 04:01 PM

They die off rather quickly. They don't all die in those seconds, but their numbers are whittled down quite a bit and then they start flashing, and rout. It doesn't always happen, it must be when most of them are in a tower and caught by the enemy. I noticed it last month when playing as Norway, and taking Normandy (migration campaign attempt).

**Galain_Ironhide** · October 16, 2011, 08:06 PM

Don't worry its not just you. I have had many experiences with this over the years.

You eventually learn when is a good time to send your men on to the wall and when not to.

**Liandro** · October 16, 2011, 10:36 PM

I rarely use those siege towers or ladders unless my troops are vastly superior to theirs, I'll use a ram, but not the others, usually I just blast the walls down and if I can't do that, I wait until I can and meantime starve them out with rotating generals, the rest of that is just crap, I hate dealing with those sorts of things, also it seems that my siege towers and occasionally my rams are doused heavily in gasoline with plenty of the previously driest wood (until thoroughly seeped in gas) and then we bring them out to the field, the enemies on the other hand are probably re-purposed boat hulls covered in the wettest grass they're so impervious to fire.

**Kaidonni** · October 17, 2011, 04:08 AM

Alas, I play with BYG IV-E, so I can't starve the enemy out. Six more turns! I'll need some sort of European wide bail-out thingy-majig

. I also can't afford a Catapult Maker yet...

I'm actually talking about the towers on the walls themselves (not siege towers). I believe a majority of a unit has to be 'in' the tower first, though, and meet another unit inside the tower, before the obliteration ensues. Not sure if it applies to the enemy unit, might have to try out an experiment.

**Liandro** · October 17, 2011, 06:19 AM

I do it with BGR IV-E, rotate the generals, it's expensive, but better than having to retrain all those troops and fend off either a counter attack or some other power seeing you as a weak defender, besides I want the town whole.

**Kaidonni** · October 17, 2011, 06:36 AM

Expensive? I'm already bankrupt...

Plus I only have three generals, the Venetians may be about to strike (either that or the AI is acting in its typical non-sensical manner), and I personally feel it might be exploitative to keep swapping generals (not judging you here, it's just a personal preference). I love battles, anyway, and want to get the siege over and done with, peace deal, etc.

**popovic** · October 17, 2011, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Kaidonni

and I personally feel it might be exploitative to keep swapping generals (not judging you here, it's just a personal preference)

I swap the generals ALL the time. Really, BGR IV is hard anyways.

**Kaidonni** · October 26, 2011, 04:46 PM

*Bump* Just thought I'd mention that I noticed the men-dropping-like-flies-in-towers thing happen to the AI tonight. A unit of their Macemen tried getting into a tower and on to the walls where my Urban Spear Militia were positioned. Makes me feel better. If it's good enough for the goose (i.e. me), it's good enough for the gander (every last darn AI army in the game from here to eternity!)

.

**Liandro** · October 17, 2011, 07:35 AM

I love battles too, but some things are just too aggravating to deal with.

**Ichon** · October 26, 2011, 06:01 PM

Yeah there seems to be some reverse charge effect on walls. I've noticed it rarely but playing CoW the other day I saw it happen 3 times in a row. It seems to happen when there is 1 unit on the wall near a tower exit and other men coming through at a run. If the men walk normal speed or the enemy unit is enough distance from the exit of the wall tower it does not happen. It is as if the game is saying there is some collision going on just like happens when a charge occurs. I haven't had a chance to test if unit with stronger charge suffer worse but it seems that way.

**Basileus of Byzantium** · October 26, 2011, 09:12 PM

I understand men operating ladders but siege tower atks don't end so quickly, depending on which troops you put to operate them and who is defending that wall section.

**Kaidonni** · October 27, 2011, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by Basileus of Byzantium

I understand men operating ladders but siege tower atks don't end so quickly, depending on which troops you put to operate them and who is defending that wall section.

I was talking about the actual towers on the walls, not siege equipment

. There are bugs with siege equipment, though (well, pathfinding bugs affect them, that is) - the other night, a siege tower stopped advancing on the walls of a settlement...because two or three of my men were stuck behind a rock

. However, the main problem was with men passing through towers on the walls, either to the next section, to the ground, or up from the ground, and something causing them to die at an amazing pace. Those Macemen should not have been dying so fast, not against my Urban Spear Militia.