Troll rush

[Anemius]

So there I am, with my proud Silvan Elven army, a nearly full stack of archers, couple of balistae units and a 1:200 K/D ratio. The challenge in this game comes from the fact the distances are huge and my finances suck.

Suddenly, Mordor attacks me with a 2000 men army and I think it will end in an easy victory once again.

Except for the 10 mountain troll units. I've dealt with trolls and balrogs before, but even my 1500 highly trained and experienced archers can't do a thing against that. Well, yeah, I can kill 90 trolls, sure. Also, I will loose about 70% of my army. Which is a problem, since there's still 1900 orcs waiting for their turn.

So, my question is: is this normal? I don't mind facing those odds once or twice per game, but having to go back all the way to my little forest to rebuild my super expensive army is not something I actually enjoy. I am in turn 86, if troll rush is going to be a normal strategy from now on, I might consider giving up and restarting a game with Rhun or Isengard.

[aequitaz]

Never seen something like that before. In my current campaign (turn 190 or so), the hardest army I faced had 3 Olog Hai and 4 Troll Catapults. Never have seen more then 3 "melee troll" units in one army before. Guess you just had bad luck there

[Moneybags14]

Well trolls are like the only thing that can touch a human player when you are the elves(and elephants), so I think they are fine. The AI needs them to compete(or sort of compete) with the player. Although 10 troll units does sound like alot, and it is alot of money too!

[ArmaFennica]

Well trolls are like the only thing that can touch a human player when you are the elves(and elephants), so I think they are fine.

The AI needs them to compete(or sort of compete) with the player. Although 10 troll units does sound like alot, and it is alot of money too!

The AI already has cheats on its side, I have had Eriadorians reform the Arnor in unbelievable time.
-The AI also has the garrison-script, and the money never seems to run out for the AI.

The trolls are too powerful.
-I know I will get hit with lots of flak for that assertion, but they really should not take such a massive amount of damage and ignore pike formations. (has anyone tweaked that unit already?)

[kingtigertank]

The AI already has cheats on its side, I have had Eriadorians reform the Arnor in unbelievable time.
-The AI also has the garrison-script, and the money never seems to run out for the AI.

The trolls are too powerful.
-I know I will get hit with lots of flak for that assertion, but they really should not take such a massive amount of damage and ignore pike formations. (has anyone tweaked that unit already?)

Here comes the flak - trolls are weak against arrows. They only seem to be strong because of their hitpoints. In fact they have only slightly above average armour - mountain trolls have 6 armour, cave trolls have 7, snow trolls have 8, olog-hai has 9 - which is similar to regular heavy infantry such as uruk hai infantry, gondor infantry, swan knights and serpent guard to name a few. Not to mention those heavy infantry also have shields to protect them from arrows.

Most of their defence comes from defence skill - 23 for mountain trolls, 24 for snow and cave trolls, 27 for olog-hai, which means it is much easier to kill them with arrows than it is with melee. In fact, it is easier to kill a unit of trolls with arrows than it is to kill a unit of average heavy infantry. Due to their small numbers and lack of shields and average armour, trolls are weak against arrows. Especially for their high cost.

When it comes to melee they are stronger than they are against ranged, but they will lose 1v1 to elite heavy infantry like the top 3 dwarven heavies, fountain guard, beserkers, barding hird, etc.

For those reasons, I have never considered trolls overpowered - they are underpowered in my books. However, everyone has different opinions so if you want to tweak them, you can do it in the export_descr_unit file if you know how to edit that, and just give them worse stats.

[Maegfaer]

For those reasons, I have never considered trolls overpowered - they are underpowered in my books. However, everyone has different opinions so if you want to tweak them, you can do it in the export_descr_unit file if you know how to edit that, and just give them worse stats.

Their power isn't in those stats. Their power is in their bloody annoying charge and that they run as fast as horses. Sure, arrows hurt them, but they engage you in melee in no time due to their speed, so you don't have time to shoot them. Hence infantry units are easier to take out with arrows, at least they are slow.

You only drew half the picture.

The annoying thing of Trolls is that if you face more than 3-4 groups at a time, that there is very little that you can do, tactically speaking, to defeat them without tons of casualties. Unless you are fighting in mountainous terrain, but that's relatively rare.

Trolls have a very high fake difficulty.

[Mikail Mengsk]

Their power isn't in those stats. Their power is in their bloody annoying charge and that they run as fast as horses. Sure, arrows hurt them, but they engage you in melee in no time due to their speed, so you don't have time to shoot them. Hence infantry units are easier to take out with arrows, at least they are slow.

You only drew half the picture.

The annoying thing of Trolls is that if you face more than 3-4 groups at a time, that there is very little that you can do, tactically speaking, to defeat them without tons of casualties. Unless you are fighting in mountainous terrain, but that's relatively rare.

Trolls have a very high fake difficulty.

You know, they are pretty expensive and they are MEANT to be difficoult to kill... their purpose is to give Orcish factions an heavy hitting, fast moving unit that can make their army a little competitive also against heavy-missile and armor-heavy enemy armies.

[braindead01]

with silvan it is problemd but with gondor fountain guard will rape them-even olog hai, half unit will be dead but all trolls also
with silvan I play as army of all archers andif that troll would try something archers would kill them most and the rest will be dead in melee-Alt archers when they are in melee and fight-other unit will continue missle attack
btw 3posts-so no more-sorry guys(and girls if there are some..)

[IrishBlood]

the best way to deal with trolls is to stop them at the source. its a bit expensive, and it takes awhile, and it can get a little tedious, but it works a charm.
send an assassin to any of mordors settlements that building needed to produce trolls, and have him sabatage it every turn. simple. no more trolls, just dont forget to look for other settlements that built new troll buildings.

[Baron Samedi]

send an assassin to any of mordors settlements that building needed to produce trolls, and have him sabatage it every turn. simple. no more trolls, just dont forget to look for other settlements that built new troll buildings.

Great idea, if it wasn't for the fact you can't recruit assassins in the first place.

[Adjudant-Major]

Mordor decided to attack me for no reason

What do you mean ? Mordor does NOT nead any reason to attack you...

[Dwarven Berserker]

Great idea, if it wasn't for the fact you can't recruit assassins in the first place.

srry, couldn't resist

[IrishBlood]

Great idea, if it wasn't for the fact you can't recruit assassins in the first place.

really!??? im certain i used them as dale and eriador!

[Raistlain]

Yeah im pretty sure some of the factions do have assassins such as the men and the evil factions. Im 90% sure that Gondor and other human factions have assassins, but im positive that the elves as a truly good faction do not. So just a heads up. Ballistae would be effective against trolls as well.

[braindead01]

really!??? im certain i used them as dale and eriador!

but not as elves-we speak about them? right?

[braindead01]

Great idea, if it wasn't for the fact you can't recruit assassins in the first place.

[Dwarven Berserker]

i've met a half stack of trolls before. (in my Rohan campaign. Mordor decided to attack me for no reason) i just autoresolved the crap out of them

[TheDarkKnight]

In LOTR TW, I had an army of that game's version of Gondor Militia warriors, archers, and cavalry. They were mostly just a frontier army that I had cobbled together to get rid of the pesty patrols...All of the sudden I get attacked by an army with 5-6 units of attack and battle trolls (LOTR TW's version of Olog-hai)...Well, my army just BARELY managed to hold against them, mostly due to my use of the mounted scouts repeatedly charging the trolls. Massive casualties that day, but I didn't encounter any trolls for a while.

A similar thing happened against Harad and their mumaks...Again, I just barely managed to hold out.

[Santana86]

If I faced a stack like that, I would try to make it a siege defence battle. After the enemy lays siege, they will most likely retreat once you sally out since you have a full stack.

When they do, you can take your time and send out the siege weapons to kill as many trolls as possible. If they charge, let the crew abandon the siege engines and run to the city. If they follow, your archers will harass them further from the walls.

I've used this tactic successfully before, but that was only against 4 troll units and 16 orc units. I did however suffer 0 casualties.

[StealthFox]

Lol, I get mad if I have to fight a stack with like three troll units.