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Thread: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

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  1. #1
    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
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    Default Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    I have for a long time been frustrated by how European politicians, economists and journalists have been willing to turn private debt into public debt by having the European countries taking over the bad debts of the banks. Yesterday Anders Borg (financial minister of Sweden) and Carl Bildt (foreign minister of Sweden) published an article in Financial times on how Sweden solved it's banking crisis in the 90s (full article here). They are of course very polite but in essence they are essentially stating that the German-French-EU politicans are using the wrong tools when they are trying to solve the crisis and focus too much on saving share holders.

    Their central thesis is that the solidity of the banks should be solved by equity issuance and not the unsecure loans that are currently creating bad loans that the tax payers will have to pay. If share holders are unable to raise enough money in this way, then the government will do so and demand shares according to their current market price. In the end this means that instead of bad loans, the government will own large parts of the banks that can be sold after the crisis.
    To gain credibility from the markets and be accepted by our citizens, such a backstop needs to be guided by four principles. The purpose is to safeguard the financial system, not shareholders. Bank share purchases should be based on market prices reflecting the value of the failing bank in the absence of support measures, with "hair-cuts" if necessary. Prices should be determined after due-diligence from a third party. Second, when tax-payers risk their money, they should receive the potential upside of the investment. This is important in mitigating moral hazard.

    Third, public capital injections warrant public control of bank management, including strict control of dividend policy, bonuses and salaries. This is vital to deter dangerous risk-taking and to ensure public support for using tax-payers' money. Fourth, the backstop should operate at arms-length from national governments without political involvement in commercial decisions.
    They are also quite openly stating that the "stress tests" conducted by the EU are dishonest crap only used to lure the population into a false sense of security. Of course they are a bit more polite about it but if new and honest tests are required, then it's quite obvious that the previous tests weren't conducted in such a manner.
    Based on our experiences we believe several steps are now needed. The size of the problem must be addressed directly and openly. Hence, the European Banking Authority needs to carry out a credible and rigorous stress test identifying which banks need capital injections. Troubled banks should be subjected to a deeper third party assessment, like the one Blackrock performed in Ireland.
    Last edited by Adar; October 13, 2011 at 08:03 AM.

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    Dubh the dark's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    I wish we thought of that, now the EU are talking about how Ireland have made the 'tough decisions' and are 'leading by example', when in reality we are utterly, totally screwed.

    This whole scenario playing out across Europe is a shambles.

    Good post Adar.
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    magpie's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    I agree Adar, The whole euro scene is nothing more than a scam, Narrow interests rule Europe with the ruling politicals in toe. Of course that scene may change if people really start to wake up and kick back at the ballot box and with their pockets.
    Regarding Ireland, Dubh my friend, one feels shamed by the lap dog attitude prevailing in the Governments attitude to the bullying of the ECC and their cronies.

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    Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    But govts cant run banks! Thats socialism!
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

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    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    But govts cant run banks! Thats socialism!
    Worse it's bad for business.
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    Worse it's bad for business.
    Why? -- Coherent argument please.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoPollo View Post
    Why? -- Coherent argument please.
    Because "business" for most Americans tends to be byword for "Wall Street business". That is insanely complex financial products based on nothing but hot air, used by CEOs to artificially inflated balance sheets, create bubbles and at point have the government and the stupid people bail them out. For THIS kind business, the Swedish model is quite bad. For the people who actually matter, as in people who actually do real work instead of engaging in fairy-tale creation and buying politicians, this model is actually good.

    But then again, the elites who run the EU and the US couldn't care less about the unwashed mashes...

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    Claudius Gothicus's Avatar Petit Burgués
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    Worse it's bad for business.
    Screw with the shareholders and not the system, doesn't sound that bad.

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    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    Worse it's bad for business.
    Sure, if governments don't control them then obviously everything is all well then. I surely shouldn't mention the fact that because of these banks with poor regulations we have a crisis on our hands here.

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    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    Worse it's bad for business.
    Only if you elect bad politicians. In Sweden we are currently being forced to subsidize private drug stores so they aren't run out of business by the government owned company.

    And I should also mention that the Swedish government have been selling most of the stocks they bought in the 1990s crisis. The only exception of that is Nordea where they still control a significant part. Oddly enough that ownership went well until Anders Borg took over and tried to sell it for ideological reasons. It's not badly run but he could have gotten a better price for it if he had been solving them like a conventional risk capitalist.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    It of course also helps they are not part of the Eurozone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    But govts cant run banks! Thats socialism!
    Buying shares and then selling them isn't socialism, so nay sir.
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    I heard one estimate that the Irish taxpayer will end up with a ninety billion Euro liability.

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    magpie's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    I heard one estimate that the Irish taxpayer will end up with a ninety billion Euro liability.
    Hi Codottiere I wish that figure was the real total. That could be managed?
    Our liabilities for banks and finance plus repaying ECB/IMF loans to bail out the banking finance sector is in the order of 220 billion and rising.
    The latest goodie to hit the Irish citizen is a bailout of unsecured bond holders at the insistance of the ECB for some 38 billion for a failed bank, Anglo/Irish Which has already seen huge sums pored into it with borrowed ECB funds at high interest rates to pay off the secured bond holders.
    A new austerity package is planned for this December to cut 3-4 billion off Government spending to help pay the interest on these loans.

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    Dubh the dark's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    Quote Originally Posted by magpie View Post
    A new austerity package is planned for this December to cut 3-4 billion off Government spending to help pay the interest on these loans.
    That budget will strangle the domestic economy, we are relying on exports to keep the state alive. Reducing the spending power again of the consumer will lead to further jobs losses in the services area. It's a bad situation and getting worse, plus the amount needed to be cut in this budget has jumped over the past week and there are more austerity measures to come in the coming years. I'll be shocked if there's anyone left working at the end of this.
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    magpie's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubh the dark View Post
    That budget will strangle the domestic economy, we are relying on exports to keep the state alive. Reducing the spending power again of the consumer will lead to further jobs losses in the services area. It's a bad situation and getting worse, plus the amount needed to be cut in this budget has jumped over the past week and there are more austerity measures to come in the coming years. I'll be shocked if there's anyone left working at the end of this.
    Hi Dubh, I agree the future looks bleak.
    Its not just the Austerity budgets that will cripple our economy.
    People,s spending power will be further erroded by the planned privatization of water and power supplies. The imposition of housing tax levies ect.
    Now the Government say their hands are tied by the IMF and ECB on these issue,s.
    I think myself that the whole thing is just a cloak to cover the explotation by the few of the many as usual.

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  16. #16

    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    Quote Originally Posted by magpie View Post
    Hi Codottiere I wish that figure was the real total. That could be managed?
    Our liabilities for banks and finance plus repaying ECB/IMF loans to bail out the banking finance sector is in the order of 220 billion and rising.
    The latest goodie to hit the Irish citizen is a bailout of unsecured bond holders at the insistance of the ECB for some 38 billion for a failed bank, Anglo/Irish Which has already seen huge sums pored into it with borrowed ECB funds at high interest rates to pay off the secured bond holders.
    A new austerity package is planned for this December to cut 3-4 billion off Government spending to help pay the interest on these loans.
    The number came up in a BBC discussion, the person quoting it seemed resigned that the current generation is screwed.

  17. #17
    Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    Oh, they got say in affairs for whatever the time being, and in Germany the Sparkassen and Raiffeisenbank are largely govt run structualy and since 50+ years. Completely unharmed in the crisis, making profits always, and completely doing their commercial thing in the mids of investment-banking panicking around.

    Im for both btw, but tight rules need to applied in either case
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  18. #18
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    British already have done this during this crisis.

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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    British already have done this during this crisis.
    When taxpayers bailed out Lloyds Banking Group – which was two separate banks Lloyds TSB and HBOS at the time – and Royal Bank of Scotland the expectation was that the government stake would have begun to be sold off by now. And at a profit.

    Instead, three years later, the taxpayer is nursing a loss of close to £32bn on stakes originally worth more than £60bn. The meltdown in the financial markets and the impact of the report by the independent commission on banking to "ringfence" high street banks is being blamed for the fall in the share prices.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/b...?newsfeed=true

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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Solving the financial crisis the Swedish way, no more free loans for the bank owners

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/b...?newsfeed=true

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