[Election-XXIII-2011] Curator Debate Thread (Vote begins 19th October)

[Omnipotent-Q]

For the Application and further information thread, click right here

This is the debate thread for the XXIII election of 2011 for the position of Curator. Pose your questions and queries to the candidates right here. Get a debate going - sing a song. Get to know the candidates essentially

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I'll start off - why do you want the position of Curator?
What can you bring to the table as Curator?

[Okmin]

I'll start off - why do you want the position of Curator?

Basically, to keep the Curia running smoothly. Also, I happen to like that shade of purple.

What can you bring to the table as Curator?

Epic button clicking skillz And I've been Omni's assistant for two terms.

[Genius of the Restoration]

I'll start off - why do you want the position of Curator?

I'd like to do something for the community at large and the Curia specifically. I'm thinking about reform. In addition to the Curator's functions necessary to the smooth operation of the Curia, I see the position as a figurehead of the Curia and, in many ways, it's gently guiding hand. Thanks to the influence of our outgoing curial enthusiast, the omnipresent Omnipotent Q, the role of Curator has become more than just a bureaucratic role; it is a role that helps frame curial debate. As Curator, I would help to facilitate the change I believe the Curia needs.

As we all know, reform is the topic of the day. It has been for a while now really, and a lot of it revolves around how to make the Curia more useful. In fact, Omni identified this as a key desire in his excellent post when he applied for the position six months ago. In the same thread, Legio posed the question of whether the Curia should be scrapped. It shouldn't come to that. Omni has done a great job in stimulating the Curia and will leave a position that will be hard to fill. I would like to try. However, I'm not content to simply emulate Omni's reign; I want to go further and pursue reform as the primary goal for a new curial era. Like others, I have some ideas about the directions the Curia can move towards. These ideas aren't fully developed though and I'm under no illusions that the ideas I've raised in the various curial revamp threads have any more support than many of the other ideas that abound. I will not try to force any ideas of mine on the Curia. I desire change in the system, but change that the citizenry can get behind. As such, any framing that I will do as Curator will be focussed upon developing reforms for the system through consensus within the Curia. In a nutshell, I want to be Curator to assist in the development of all reforms that are proposed for the future of the Curia.

What can you bring to the table as Curator?

Drive to improve the Curia, efficiency in organisational matters and a hint of charm.

I am willing, fellow citizens. All I require is your blessing

[M D]

Reserved

[Jom]

Question for all candidates:

Will you be carrying on Omni's excellent Curial reports? If not, why not?

[Omnipotent-Q]

Question for all candidates:

Will you be carrying on Omni's excellent Curial reports? If not, why not?

I knew I'd forgotten about updating something in the Curia at the back of my mind... . The spreadsheet that makes these reports will be bundled with the Guide to being Curator should the next Curator wish to use it or whatever. I guess that's key information to answering the question!

I have another question. Hypothetical question - a member PMs you saying they want to be a citizen - what would you do?

[Genius of the Restoration]

Will you be carrying on Omni's excellent Curial reports?

Yes, they are a valuable tool for easily checking the activites of CdeC and have served me as a starting point of research at the beginning of each CdeC election.

Hypothetical question - a member PMs you saying they want to be a citizen - what would you do?

I would initially check their posts and see whether I thought they were somewhere in the ball park. I'd then contact them asking if they would fit the criteria required. If this was all well and good, I'd act as their patron. I have written that I view patronisation as a means of quality control and that I don't think the identity of the patron is particularly important. In my mind, the role of the patron is there to facilitate the entry of the non-citizen into the group and I would gladly offer my service for this if asked.

Do you think the Curia needs reforms? If yes, radical or moderate? Are you going to play an active role towards this goal?

Yes, I think the Curia needs reforms. I think radical reforms offer the best opportunities for turning the Curia into something that assists the site. I'm currently in the process of writing a piece analysing the structure of the Curia and where conflicts lie so that reforms can target these areas. I will play an active role as Curator, as I have done in the reform threads. I will be even more active in pursuing reforms in the future both in the role of Curator and developing my own ideas (to be fair, it's actually based off something Garb wrote) once I flesh out and organise my own ideas into something more readable.

[Romanos IV]

Do you think the Curia needs reforms? If yes, radical or moderate? Are you going to play an active role towards this goal?

[Okmin]

Question for all candidates:

Will you be carrying on Omni's excellent Curial reports? If not, why not?

Hopefully they'll be as good as his.

I have another question. Hypothetical question - a member PMs you saying they want to be a citizen - what would you do?

Would depend on exactly what he asked, but basically:
1. Explain citizenship criteria (if necessary)
2. Give him my opinion on whether he would make it past the CdeC
3. Ask if he has a patron
4. If he doesn't and I liked his contributions, I'd offer to patronize him

Do you think the Curia needs reforms? If yes, radical or moderate? Are you going to play an active role towards this goal?

The Curia does need some reforms. For the past few days I've actually been thinking about a way to merge your plan and MD's (will post it when I have time). And yes, I plan on playing on pushing forward with reforms like that.

[M D]

I'll start off - why do you want the position of Curator?
What can you bring to the table as Curator?

1. It also started long ago when Major, son of Patrick, son of Francis, was lifted ahigh from the manger he was born in that was of St Marys Paddington Hospital, London. The Angel of Paul declared, "And he shall be called Major" but Patrick replied "But there is no one in my family called Major", so the Angel silenced him for doubting the Lord Paul. On the 8th day when the child was christened, they asked what the child was to be named, and Patrick said, "He is to be called Major, and he shall be born the Curator, descendant of Paul", they all looked up shocked, "But there is no one in your family named Major!", "The Angel of the Lord Paul has sent me a command, and I shall follow it." So Major grew up, yet when he was older his family went to the Internet for Christmas, yet on their way back they thought they had him. But they did not realise for a while he was not there, he was in fact back on the Internet. THey found him on Total War Center listening to the Admins, and asking questions. They said, we have lost you but Major replied, "Is it not written I shall be in my father's House?" It was his destiny to be Curator, as decreed by the Lord Paul, as is written.

2. I can bring experience as Councillor of the most esteemed Council of Civitates. In my one full term I examined every application, and I believe I took part in every vote (if my own reports that I wrote are accruate). I have also served as a fill in councillor more than once which allowed me familiarity with the Council and ensured I do not step over their sacred line, for only once a year may the Curator enter the Holy of Holies. I also have been Assistant Curator with experience in bureacracy, coupled with my real life job. I also had I think almost two whole years on the Content Staff running the Wiki, the Eagle Standard and being Assistant Manager.

Question for all candidates:

Will you be carrying on Omni's excellent Curial reports? If not, why not?

Yes. As someone who has the experience of writing out the old long hand reports, and doing about 5 months of backdated ones, I have no problem with such a mission. In fact, many may find this strange but I actually find bureacracy and paperwork quite exciting. Im also a fan of these graphs he uses, and Im a dab hand at Excel also. But they are a bit lacking in times of deadlines, naughty Omni! There are fixed points in time, which you should know, which can never be re-written.

I have another question. Hypothetical question - a member PMs you saying they want to be a citizen - what would you do?

Throw the poor sods coins. But in all seriousness, I would send them a link to both the useful Citizen Antechamber so they can see what is required to be a citizen. I would also let them know about the minimum requirements, and send them the Wiki article. If they are without a patron, I would examine them and decide whether I can take them under my wing, or whether I would suggest them to a friendly citizen companion of mine. Omni has done a brilliant job of helping these poor souls, and some excellent catches too may I point out. I also have several clients, some more active and better behaved than others. But the bottom line is, I would help them.

Do you think the Curia needs reforms? If yes, radical or moderate? Are you going to play an active role towards this goal?

I believe this is something I would need to look in depth at as Curator. However for now, I feel it needs a serious purpose, and your idea and perhaps a mesh with mine would help sort this problem. One must be wary however not to create more useless bureacracy that my in fact undermine the CVRIA, rather than help it.

[Omnipotent-Q]

I would like to offer my time because I want CdeC to debate and talk more. Two months ago I suggested to CdeC that they should talk more about their differences. Since then, the application of Goodguy was assessed by CdeC. In the thread, councillors referred to keeping a citizen on a short leash in order that he be allowed in despite existing and continuing behavioural problems. Despite the applicant receiving a note during the application, three councillors voted yes. Later, all councillors who participated voted for further action against Ferrets54. Some cited previous behaviour as an aggravating factor, despite arguments about short leashes being used as a mitigating factor only the week before. To his credit, Hesus had commented in Goodguy's thread that allowing someone in on a short leash wasn't really the aim, but unfortunately Hesus had resigned by Ferrets' referral. To my surprise, nobody else commented on this discrepancy. While I could comment from the sides as I've done in the past, I think sitting on CdeC and debating differences of opinion with councillors myself is a better option.

Ok in regards to this example from the CdeC debate thread, while being careful not to comment directly on the user too personally, would any of the candidates considered vetoing the citizenship application if it had passed?

Also if you were a voting member, how would you have voted in the disciplinary example quote above if the one month and two month option was tied and you had to use the deadlock vote to break it? Here's the thread in question.

[Genius of the Restoration]

Ok in regards to this example from the CdeC debate thread, while being careful not to comment directly on the user too personally, would any of the candidates considered vetoing the citizenship application if it had passed?

I wouldn't have used the veto, no. I wouldn't use the veto to rebuff the decisions of CdeC at all. They are elected to decide these things and, though I may not agree with their decision, that is their prerogative. Imposing my own will over that of CdeC based purely on my own opinion of a case they have examined would be very presumptuous. I would only use the veto for administrative and technical problems.

Also if you were a voting member, how would you have voted in the disciplinary example quote above if the one month and two month option was tied and you had to use the deadlock vote to break it? Here's the thread in question

I would have voted for a month-long suspension. In a deadlock between the elected councillors, I would rarely push for the harsher option even if I did think it was deserved, which in this case I don't. I would be more inclined to leniency if the members who were elected to judge the case were split.

[Okmin]

Can I plead the fifth and not answer these questions? I find it slightly awkward that I'm going to be talking about CdeC cases I was on the "wrong side" of, in a Curator debate. Anyway:

Ok in regards to this example from the CdeC debate thread, while being careful not to comment directly on the user too personally, would any of the candidates considered vetoing the citizenship application if it had passed?

I agree with GotR and MD here. The veto shouldn't be used to impose the curator's will on the CdeC.

Also if you were a voting member, how would you have voted in the disciplinary example quote above if the one month and two month option was tied and you had to use the deadlock vote to break it? Here's the thread in question.

On the case in question, I would still vote for two months. My reasoning is/was that the user in question (as someone said in the most recent case) has had a few dozen "second chances" and still gets referred to the CdeC on a regular basis. If it was anyone else (i.e. not a repeat offender), I would (have) vote(d) for one month a la leniency as mentioned by GotR and MD.

[M D]

Ok in regards to this example from the CdeC debate thread, while being careful not to comment directly on the user too personally, would any of the candidates considered vetoing the citizenship application if it had passed?

Also if you were a voting member, how would you have voted in the disciplinary example quote above if the one month and two month option was tied and you had to use the deadlock vote to break it? Here's the thread in question.

If you don't mind, Im going to answer this as well.

In regard to Goodguy and the use of the veto. From my studies in Classics, and of Politics I believe the veto can be very harmful and usually does the opposite to what one wanted to achive. Take for instance the veto used by the Empress on Ferret's original application, she used a lot of history of the past, and overruled the CdeC. I believe the Curator is (in this issue) sort of like the British Monarch, constitutionally there and required, but sort of just meant to follow protocol. A curator should stay on their CdeC's good side but also ensuring it is proper, and the CVRIA remains within all that is decent. I am a person who has patronised someone who was hated on this site in its early years (Bertie), yet I patronised him because he promised to be good, and I held him to that and he was made a citizen, sadly he has since failed. To goodguy I would be the same way, I would expect him to promise to be good and follow the rules, and a note isnt an infraction after all. Yet if I thought he had notkept that standard, I would certainly consider referring him. So no, I would not exercise a veto in that exact situation.

In the Ferrets issue, I would vote for a one month suspension, it is long enough for someone to understand they have done something wrong, and for the CVRIA to be strict. In 2 months that member can do a lot, and if they persistently break the rules, even though their suspended from the CVRIA they still get referred (me being a case in point). A 2 month would be only used next time, or sometimes just go straight to an Ostrakon.

[M D]

To my fellow candidates,

How much time can you realistically devote to being Curator, and how much can you put towards not just fulfilling the job but advancing the CVRIA/Citizen body as a whole?

[Genius of the Restoration]

To my fellow candidates,

How much time can you realistically devote to being Curator, and how much can you put towards not just fulfilling the job but advancing the CVRIA/Citizen body as a whole?

As you well know, I'm on holiday and have been for all of this year. People may think that means I'm busy all the time, but after nine months on the road I can confidently announce that running flat out for that long would burn you out. I have more than enough time to fulfil the duties of Curator as well as strive for improvements to the system. I return to Australia on the 10th of November if anyone wishes to throw me a party.

To all candidates: what role do you believe that the Curia has on the site, and what role would you like to see it have?

I'm currently writing an analysis of the Curia to help with reforms discussions and have identified four key aims of the Curia:

Sneak peek excerpt one

1. To assist in the administration of the site,
2. to reward contributing members,
3. to allow members more say in the running of the site, and
4. enjoyment.

The Curia would ideally play a role to fulfil all of these aims. There are inconsistencies with how the Curia is set up that interfere with achieving these aims though. For example:

Excerpt two. Aren't you lucky?

Membership:
The Curia is comprised of citizens only. This means only highly contributing members have the opportunity to have more say in the running of the site. This strengthens the reward aspect of citizenship because offering this ability only to the select group is part of the reward for contributions. However, in counterbalance to this boon it is also detrimental to the Curia's ability to assist the administration because it reduces the supply of input by other members. The restriction on membership introduces a tension between the Curia’s functions.

I would like to maintain the current aims of the Curia, but I would like to reform the Curia to enable it to meet these aims more effectively. In my mind, the Curia should carry on with the role it currently has but be better at it.

[Okmin]

You also have to remember the people who support things. Yes bazillions supported a opifex, but how active are those supporters in the cvria. Whereas those who supported the reform change are active citizens with a different attitude. Quality over quantity, although it's good to have a lot of citizens, it may be better to have the few who care, a number I admit must increase.

True.

[Jom]

To all candidates: what role do you believe that the Curia has on the site, and what role would you like to see it have?

[Okmin]

To my fellow candidates,

How much time can you realistically devote to being Curator, and how much can you put towards not just fulfilling the job but advancing the CVRIA/Citizen body as a whole?

A lot. I'm not sure exactly how much, but maybe about five hours a day. More like one or two on bad days.

To all candidates: what role do you believe that the Curia has on the site, and what role would you like to see it have?

The Curia is pretty much just an awards committee now. A few months ago we still did some other stuff, mostly involving arguing over whether or not the Curia is just an awards committee, but now we do just do medals and talk about doing something to get ourselves talking about other things.

Basically, I'd like to see the Curia take a more active role in the various TWC communities (modders, RPGs, writers, artists, etc.) and serve as a semi-empowered thinktank. Probably most of the ideas would end up being done by staff/Hex, but ideally individual citizens would get involved too.

[M D]

I would disagree with the award giving body idea, thats an old chestnut that would have been valid not so long ago, not now.. I mean look at Romanos' latest proposal.