Challenging economic times

[Flyboy1972]

Long, long time RTW and MTW2 player, newly come to the ASOIAF novels, and loving them.

So first of all, my thanks to the mod team for a fantastic initiative and equally impressive execution.

This mod has increased my enjoyment of the novels immensely, by allowing me far more 'strategic' understanding of the geography and settlements.

Haven't started the HBO series yet, as I want to get through the books first.

My first post in this forum pertains to the economic factors in this mod.

I've started several campaigns with different families, VH/VH, and generally play until turn 25 or so, to get a feel for that faction etc.

Obviously castles far outnumber towns/cities (in keeping with the source material), so covering the upkeep cost for armies is especially challenging. Usually by turn 5 or 6 I'm in the red, and the debt is mounting fast.

Even capturing new territories doesn't help much, as they tend to be low-gold-yielding castles, and the towns that do exist are too small to make much of a difference.

My question is whether some consideration has been given to increasing the economic strength of larger castles to bring them more in line with cities in MTW2? e.g., allow 'capital city' castles for each faction to build markets, trading posts, and associated percentage multipliers to earned revenues, so that factions can afford to field larger armies without sinking into debt right out of the gate? Essentially create combined city/castles for the 'home base' of each faction.

Unless the intention was to limit factions' gold to keep armies smaller and harder to retrain or replenish (in keeping with the source material), then I respectfully find that the tension between economy and warfare is one area the mod could use more balance.

Again, thanks the mod team for their great work so far.

[Murfmurf]

Welcome to the forums buddy!

Yep, we've considered a lot of economic factors. I'll let someone who is more versed in the coding give you the lowdown, but I do know that in the alpha it's much harder to generate revenue! I mainly use our current dev build for testing rather than playing through a campaign but there seems to be much more gold about in general.

One of our main considerations in all decisions is keeping in line with the source material, thus the castles. In the alpha that's as far as the thinking went, but v1.0 should fully reflect the demography and lack of urbanisation of Westeros, with the population and industry being based in the countryside, and as such flowing to the coffers of the lords in their keeps.

[Sandy]

sending merchants onto the lannisters gold mines can earn you thousands per turn. It just gets incredibly annoying when other merchants absorb yours by hostile takeover.

[Super-Soviet]

Just choose a faction near Kings Landing. Taking it and sacking it covers the costs well enough for me.

[captainnemo55555]

Just choose a faction near Kings Landing. Taking it and sacking it covers the costs well enough for me.

Oldtown and Lannisport work well too.

[Flyboy1972]

Having now played the mod through to victory as Stark, Lannister and Arryn families, I would suggest the following as a way to balance the poor GDP of castles with cost of maintaining the necessary armies:

1. Instead of tinkering with economic coding of castles, how about simply reducing the upkeep cost of units by half? This could be rationalized against the source material by bearing in mind that bannermen would have, presumably, borne some of the cost of equipping, feeding and otherwise maintaining the armies they deliver for use by their lords.

2. Along those lines, what about a per-turn King's Tribute that's paid directly to the treasury, upon claiming of the crown, (similar to King's Tribute paid to Norway in Brittania campaign in MTW2 Kingdoms)?

Those measures would go a long way towards addressing the quick decsent into the red I've encountered while playing this (otherwise excellent) mod.

[Enferfeu]

Having now played the mod through to victory as Stark, Lannister and Arryn families, I would suggest the following as a way to balance the poor GDP of castles with cost of maintaining the necessary armies:

1. Instead of tinkering with economic coding of castles, how about simply reducing the upkeep cost of units by half? This could be rationalized against the source material by bearing in mind that bannermen would have, presumably, borne some of the cost of equipping, feeding and otherwise maintaining the armies they deliver for use by their lords.

2. Along those lines, what about a per-turn King's Tribute that's paid directly to the treasury, upon claiming of the crown, (similar to King's Tribute paid to Norway in Brittania campaign in MTW2 Kingdoms)?

Those measures would go a long way towards addressing the quick decsent into the red I've encountered while playing this (otherwise excellent) mod.

I like this idea and is very well explained. I would say not half the upkeep though, more like reduce it by a third or something. Also, if you try the Cpt's enhanced submod you will find money is much easier to make because you have all your starting settlements from the beginning. It then becomes a balancing act, with factions like the Arryn and Martell, it is somethings a good idea to wait building large armies and wait for others to get weaker. For some like the Tullys, it is more important for them to have large forces in the majority of their settlements and to begin taking territories quickly. (These are all the ways I stay afloat, and might have no hold in the 1.0 at all)
I think that a good way to increase trade would be in adding the paved roads of Westeros (Kingsroad, Rose road, River road) I have said it before, but that's because I strongly believe in its inclusion. It would also generate more income, which would make those settlements on the roads more important.

[Flyboy1972]

Thanks for the replies and feedback.

Enferfeu-what's this submod you referred to?

Par consequence, j'aime beaucoup votre nom du plume. "Hellfire." Nice.

[warrior6]

i just use money cheats...there are no towns/cities in this game which is what medieval uses for you to make money. everything is a castle and castles dont have any economic buildings or good tax rates. there are a few cities but they are not enough to make a difference.

[StannisBaratheon]

i just use money cheats...there are no towns/cities in this game which is what medieval uses for you to make money. everything is a castle and castles dont have any economic buildings or good tax rates. there are a few cities but they are not enough to make a difference.

The good people of King's Landing, Oldtown, Lannisport and Gulltown disagree with you.

[Super-Soviet]

I think one thing you might have to do in future versions is use the "fort" castles they had in Britannia, and have them placed right next to villages. This should only be done with minor castles, mind. For example, in the book Rosby is pretty much a village with a castle standing nearby. In the Westeros Total War, it's a massive Fortress dedicated only to producing warriors. This could loosen up economic management, by allowing you to levy taxes like a real ruler would, not just on a few towns and cities but on a great mass of smaller villages. It'd also be a more accurate representation of the kind of society they have in Westeros. It's mostly villages with castles and holdfasts to flee to in times of trouble and assert the authority of the Nobility, with a few major cities that act as centers of trade; not some ultra-militaristic world in which the majority of people live in Castles surrounding only a handful of towns and cities.

[Enferfeu]

Such a system was already thought of one such stone fort I can think of was planned for the Bloody gate, however the devs decided that the cpu couln't hadle stone forts well and decieded it was better if they just used regular settlements. I personally agree with you but such game limitations might unbalance the game. (I think..)