Archontopoulai useless?

[Dark Lord's Heir]

Does anyone find the archontopoulai to be useless when playing the Roman Empire? They have great armor but their defense skill is a 1, and I believe their melee atks are low too (a 5 i think) along with the speed they swing their swords at is like above 60. I honestly can't find a good use for them save for ramming into weak militia type units but other than that they get kiled pretty easily in combat. If the archontopoulai aren't useless to you then post your reasons why.

[philipjd]

I never bother with them as I too found them to be a waste of time and effort - the only one's I use are the 'at start' units for the late campaign.
Their defence never seems to be effective and their attack appears to be the same also.

[Caesar Clivus]

They have low defense because they are fanatics (hence the crucifixes they wear). Use them for charging, not sustained melee.

[Basileus Antiochus]

They are weak, but they are so cheap... their upkeep cost is equal to Kontaratoi... So they are very expendable

[philipjd]

They are weak, but they are so cheap... their upkeep cost is equal to Kontaratoi... So they are very expendable

sadly, or perhaps niavely, I never treat units as 'expendable', perhaps my philosophy to life, even if they are only pixels.

[Serbian Hussar]

As CC said, they are good for charging and flanking. And they are available from the start when there is no qualitiy heavy cavalry in Byzantines enemies armies. Nontheless, only 1 defense skill is maybe too low. They are sons of officers, and because of that, they should have had military training from early age.

[AnthoniusII]

Read their description text.
Archontopulla are more or less teenagers that seak for revenge (fanatics).
They lack of battle expirience but they have powerfull charge.
Read all units info texts to see how you can use them in battle properly.

[Dark Lord's Heir]

Read their description text.
Archontopulla are more or less teenagers that seak for revenge (fanatics).
They lack of battle expirience but they have powerfull charge.
Read all units info texts to see how you can use them in battle properly.

I know but even so their charges can't compare to western knights. It feels weird seeing guys with really high defence fall as fast as like regular militia. Any other tactics you guys suggest using with the archons besides charging?

[Knight of Heaven]

You got to treat then as cavalry militia, meaning They are reasonable enough for charge and run tactics and run down fleeing troops, but are great at flanking, if you have an Oportunity.. Never use then againts other Cavalary. Unless they are Light cav. Even then, use only to pindown Light cav so that heavier troops can be deploy against then.

[Sassanid Saxon]

Historically (as fanatical shock attack cavalry) the Tagma of the Archontopulla served Alexios I quite well during his war with the Patzinaks. Despite their apparent destruction during that conflict, they seem to show up again during the battle of Sirmium in 1167. I'd love it if they were recruit able from a guild (perhaps theologians) instead of an army barracks but they are pretty accurate ingame as a "junior scholae" type of of Kataphratoi in training...

[Moritol]

Huskarl cavalry is worse... and way more expensive.
At least, thanks to their armor, Archontopoulai are a nightmare for most archers.
Use them as light cavalry, hit and run tactics.
It just bothers me that it takes so long to get to the point where you can finally recruit them

[Cathedralsquares]

It just bothers me that it takes so long to get to the point where you can finally recruit them

This. it wouldn't be so bad if I could recruit them earlier but how late they are pretty much means that by the time I would consider using them I've already got swarms and swarms of better cavalry already. The only unit of them that I've ever used were the starting one in Durazzo.

[Liandro]

By the time they're available, I've bought or have better cavalry, even mercenaries, I just never bother, nice looking unit, but in a faction that's loaded with cavalry, the Archs are kind of without a spot, too weak for heavier fighting, too late to bother with and well, whatever, I just never get around to them.

[Caesar Clivus]

If they were made more powerful, people would complain that they're overpowered

[Cathedralsquares]

Just reducing them so you can pick them up in a minor city would be fine. As it stands there's just no incentive to use them at all.

[delra]

Yea, who would need cheap heavy cavalry recruitable from a city? ;-)

[Homeros]

Yea, who would need cheap heavy cavalry recruitable from a city? ;-)

That nice and all, but at the time your cities can produce those units they are already obselete.

They are basically Merchant / Mititia Cavalry with better armor (~equal upkeep costs). Merchant Cavalry is available at city level (not huge-city-level); Merchant Cav can be recruited without a WC-PTS governor (Archontopoulai isn't). Tweaking these requirements will make em more interesting without changing the unit stats. The only way to recruit them (relatively early) is in Constantinople, but when I have to chose between those and Scolarii - it isn't much of a choice. Furthermore, when Constantinople becomes a huge city money shouldn't be a problem anymore. On all my Roman campaigns I had more money than I could spend, so the additional training/upkeep cost for the more powerful (cav) units wasn't an issue anymore.

[AnthoniusII]

I know but even so their charges can't compare to western knights. It feels weird seeing guys with really high defence fall as fast as like regular militia. Any other tactics you guys suggest using with the archons besides charging?

No Roman cavalry can compare with knights espesialy late/high era ones!
That's the point though...to show the weaknesses, not to create a knight unit with the shape of byzantines.
Pronoiars are closer to knights..

[delra]

Messed up SS economy which requires a solid rebalance increasing building and unit costs and decreasing incomes is another thing...

[popovic]

Messed up SS economy which requires a solid rebalance increasing building and unit costs and decreasing incomes is another thing...

I absolutely agree on that. Actually I`m working on modifying it right now. Will prolly take a lot of time to get it right, though.