Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Default Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    [ CALIFORNIA may seem the best place to study the impact of illegal immigration on the prospects of American workers. Hordes of immigrants rushed into the state in the last 25 years, competing for jobs with the least educated among the native population. The wages of high school dropouts in California fell 17 percent from 1980 to 2004.
    Multimedia

    Do Immigrants Affect Wages?

    But before concluding that immigrants are undercutting the wages of the least fortunate Americans, perhaps one should consider Ohio. Unlike California, Ohio remains mostly free of illegal immigrants. And what happened to the wages of Ohio's high school dropouts from 1980 to 2004? They fell 31 percent.

    As Congress debates an overhaul of the nation's immigration laws, several economists and news media pundits have sounded the alarm, contending that illegal immigrants are causing harm to Americans in the competition for jobs.

    Yet a more careful examination of the economic data suggests that the argument is, at the very least, overstated. There is scant evidence that illegal immigrants have caused any significant damage to the wages of American workers.

    The number that has been getting the most attention lately was produced by George J. Borjas and Lawrence F. Katz, two Harvard economists, in a paper published last year. They estimated that the wave of illegal Mexican immigrants who arrived from 1980 to 2000 had reduced the wages of high school dropouts in the United States by 8.2 percent. But the economists acknowledge that the number does not consider other economic forces, such as the fact that certain businesses would not exist in the United States without cheap immigrant labor. If it had accounted for such things, immigration's impact would be likely to look less than half as big.

    Mr. Katz was somewhat taken aback by the attention the study has received. "This was not intended," he said.

    At first blush, the preoccupation over immigration seems reasonable. Since 1980, eight million illegal immigrants have entered the work force. Two-thirds of them never completed high school. It is sensible to expect that, because they were willing to work for low wages, they would undercut the position in the labor market of American high school dropouts.

    This common sense, however, ignores half the picture. Over the last quarter-century, the number of people without any college education, including high school dropouts, has fallen sharply. This has reduced the pool of workers who are most vulnerable to competition from illegal immigrants.

    In addition, as businesses and other economic agents have adjusted to immigration, they have made changes that have muted much of immigration's impact on American workers.

    For instance, the availability of foreign workers at low wages in the Nebraska poultry industry made companies realize that they had the personnel to expand. So they invested in new equipment, generating jobs that would not otherwise be there. In California's strawberry patches, illegal immigrants are not competing against native workers; they are competing against pickers in Michoacán, Mexico. If the immigrant pickers did not come north across the border, the strawberries would.

    "Immigrants come in and the industries that use this type of labor grow," said David Card, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley. "Taking all into account, the effects of immigration are much, much lower."

    In a study published last year that compared cities that have lots of less educated immigrants with cities that have very few, Mr. Card found no wage differences that could be attributed to the presence of immigrants.

    Other research has also cast doubt on illegal immigration's supposed damage to the nation's disadvantaged. A study published earlier this year by three economists — David H. Autor of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Mr. Katz of Harvard and Melissa S. Kearney of the Brookings Institution — observed that income inequality in the bottom half of the wage scale has not grown since around the mid-1980's.

    Even economists striving hardest to find evidence of immigration's effect on domestic workers are finding that, at most, the surge of illegal immigrants probably had only a small impact on wages of the least-educated Americans — an effect that was likely swamped by all the other things that hit the economy, from the revolution in technology to the erosion of the minimum wage's buying power.

    When Mr. Borjas and Mr. Katz assumed that businesses reacted to the extra workers with a corresponding increase in investment — as has happened in Nebraska — their estimate of the decline in wages of high school dropouts attributed to illegal immigrants was shaved to 4.8 percent. And they have since downgraded that number, acknowledging that the original analysis used some statistically flimsy data.

    Assuming a jump in capital investment, they found that the surge in illegal immigration reduced the wages of high school dropouts by just 3.6 percent. Across the entire labor force, the effect of illegal immigrants was zero, because the presence of uneducated immigrants actually increased the earnings of more educated workers, including high school graduates. For instance, higher-skilled workers could hire foreigners at low wages to mow their lawns and care for their children, freeing time for these workers to earn more. And businesses that exist because of the availability of cheap labor might also need to employ managers.

    Mr. Borjas said that while the numbers were not large, the impact at the bottom end of the skill range was significant. "It is not a big deal for the whole economy, but that hides a big distributional impact," he said.

    OTHERS disagree. "If you're a native high school dropout in this economy, you've got a slew of problems of which immigrant competition is but one, and a lesser one at that," said Jared Bernstein of the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal research group.

    Mr. Katz agreed that the impact was modest, and it might fall further if changes in trade flows were taken into account — specifically, that without illegal immigrants, some products now made in the United States would likely be imported. "Illegal immigration had a little bit of a role reinforcing adverse trends for the least advantaged," he said, "but there are much stronger forces operating over the last 25 years. ]

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/16/bu...=1&oref=slogin

    Please, discuss...

  2. #2

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    Another interesting article:


    In Jackson Heights, Queens, last week, a line of people stretched outside Orlando Travel, a small booth between a lingerie shop and a perfume store in a mini-mall. One of them, Miguel A. Carvajal, clung to a folder of papers and to the hope that what he was doing — filing his taxes — would help him change his status as an illegal immigrant.
    Perspectives on Immigration


    Three voices. Three people, each with a small piece of the swirling story of illegal immigration in the United States, cannot answer the tangled questions that have washed over politics recently with a sudden, jolting wave.

    The owner of the travel agency, Orlando Tobón, who also prepares income tax forms for many of the Colombian immigrants in the area, reviewed Mr. Carvajal's federal and state tax forms, stapled them and handed them back. He took his fee of $40 and slipped it into his pocket.

    Mr. Carvajal said that since coming to New York from Colombia in October 2001, he has paid taxes on his earnings each year, hoping it will help him apply for citizenship so that he can bring over his wife and daughter, who have been unable to win visas to settle in the United States.

    Mr. Carvajal, 40, left behind his family and a solid job as a traffic police officer and bought a round-trip plane ticket to New York, as if taking a vacation. He got a job parking cars at a Manhattan garage for minimum wage and found that the people back home were right: he could make more money at a minimum-wage job in New York than he could directing traffic in Medellín.

    He held out his 2005 tax form and pointed to his gross income — $23,489 — which he said came from working seven days a week and all the overtime he could get.

    Mr. Carvajal is one of the estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States who would be affected by proposed legislation to create a guest-worker program for immigrants who have lived in here for two or more years, and an easier path to citizenship for those who have lived here at least five years.

    Mr. Carvajal said all he really knew about the proposed bill was that it would be likely to help him, since he has been here almost five years: working hard, paying his taxes and staying out of trouble. "I'm glad the government is doing something to help us," he said. "The only reason we moved here is to work hard."

    He added, "I'm glad to pay taxes if it means I can start building my life here."

    Mr. Carvajal said he decided to pay taxes in good faith, hoping that the government would respond in kind with an offer to let him earn his citizenship.

    He lives in a small room he rents for $400 a month in Woodside with a bathroom in the hall he shares with three other men, all Colombian and in a similar situation.

    He commutes on the elevated No. 7 train, known as the immigrant express, which rumbles along Roosevelt Avenue, bringing workers into Manhattan from Flushing, Corona, Jackson Heights and Woodside.

    Mr. Carvajal works evenings for $6.50 an hour at a small parking garage in Manhattan, where the required skills are parking in tight spaces and saying as little as possible. He knows just enough English to tell customers how much they owe for how many hours parked.

    He earns $300 a week plus tips, $65 of which is withheld in taxes, he said. He has no benefits or health insurance and spends as little as possible on himself — rent, food, clothing, subway fare and cellphone, and he tries to avoid the doctor.

    He tries to send $300 a month to his parents and his wife and daughter in Colombia, he said. The money has helped buy a house for them and paid the private school tuition for his daughter, Veronica, 16, whose voice on the telephone no longer sounds like that of the 11-year-old girl he left behind.

    "In my mind, she is still a little girl, but I know she is a woman now," he said. "I feel like I don't know her anymore."

    His family speaks reverentially of New York, but that is not the city he knows, he said. A walk around Midtown on a Sunday is the most he sees. Having illegal status means a precarious life, he said. He is nervous in public and refrains from socializing for fear of getting involved in anything that could lead to an encounter with people bearing badges.

    On Thursday night, he stared westward down a Manhattan street at a sliver of pink sunset fading to darkness. He traded in a life as a happy but poor father for the chance at a more prosperous future for his family in America, he said, and he recently made a bargain with himself to give it two more years to see if citizenship will ever be possible.

    "If not, I give up and go home," he said.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/16/us/16immig1.html

  3. #3
    Zuwxiv's Avatar Bear Claus
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    California
    Posts
    4,361

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    Living in California, I hear a lot about "Illegal immigrants are out to steal your job and your daughter's virginity!" stuff. Ridiculous. Very interesting articles, and a good way to refute those claims. Most of the illegal immigrants are hard working contributors to our economy.

    Currently worshipping Necrobrit *********** Thought is Quick
    I'm back for the TWCrack

  4. #4
    Semisalis
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dominican Republic
    Posts
    445

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    Funny, some people portray illegal immigrants or Hispanic immigrants in general as an invading Barbarian Horde trying to destroy the American Way of Life. LoL.

    Speaking of Hispanic Immigrants, I just moved to the U.S(NYC) just a couple days ago. Congrats to me!!
    In ethical theory, I should care. I know that I should care. However, emotionally, to be perfectly honest, I don't give a damn.
    --Darth Wong

  5. #5
    Darth Wong's Avatar Pit Bull
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    4,020

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    I have trouble sympathizing for people who are raised in a western country with full access to free primary and secondary education, who drop out anyway, and who then complain that illegal Mexican immigrants have the same job qualifications that they do.

    Yes, I have a life outside the Internet and Rome Total War
    "Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions" - Stephen Colbert
    Under the kind patronage of Seleukos

  6. #6

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    Quote Originally Posted by barbarion horde
    Funny, some people portray illegal immigrants or Hispanic immigrants in general as an invading Barbarian Horde trying to destroy the American Way of Life. LoL.

    Speaking of Hispanic Immigrants, I just moved to the U.S(NYC) just a couple days ago. Congrats to me!!
    There are only about 11 million by estimate. You'd almost think there were billions on top of billions.
    Sponsored by the Last Roman

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    Quote Originally Posted by David Deas
    There are only about 11 million by estimate. You'd almost think there were billions on top of billions.
    Thats the low end estimate used by pro-illegal immigration propogandists. You know the lying fools that dont know the definition of the word illegal.

    Also last I heard 11 million was a lot of people.

    However, I get annoyed that I have to pay welfare for those drop outs, because now they don't have a job.
    So you would rather they mug you for the money instead? Or would you rather them live in illegal shanty towns like it was the 30s?
    Swear filters are for sites run by immature children.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    However, I get annoyed that I have to pay welfare for those drop outs, because now they don't have a job.

  9. #9
    Darth Wong's Avatar Pit Bull
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    4,020

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee1026
    However, I get annoyed that I have to pay welfare for those drop outs, because now they don't have a job.
    Do you really think that people like that would be working hard at a job if the illegal immigrants weren't around? They'd be living in trailer parks collecting welfare cheques either way. How do you think they failed to complete high school in the first place, despite having it provided to them for free? It wasn't a strong work ethic, that's for sure.

    Yes, I have a life outside the Internet and Rome Total War
    "Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions" - Stephen Colbert
    Under the kind patronage of Seleukos

  10. #10

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Wong
    Do you really think that people like that would be working hard at a job if the illegal immigrants weren't around? They'd be living in trailer parks collecting welfare cheques either way. How do you think they failed to complete high school in the first place, despite having it provided to them for free? It wasn't a strong work ethic, that's for sure.

    They DO undercut wages, contribute to criminality, make citizens pay more for healthcare and insurance, and essentially get everything a citizen gets without paying for it.

    You don't have to believe they are a "barbarian horde" to sensibly recognize the problem with all of the above.


    A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.
    --George Patton

    Hell hath no fury like a non-combatant.
    --Charles Edward Montague

    Oscar Wilde was a child molester. Quoting him doesn't mean that you're smart...you're just promoting a homosexual pedophile.
    --Sgt. Schultz

  11. #11
    Darth Wong's Avatar Pit Bull
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    4,020

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyj
    They DO undercut wages, contribute to criminality, make citizens pay more for healthcare and insurance, and essentially get everything a citizen gets without paying for it.
    They undercut wages for people who aren't inclined to work anyway, ie- high-school dropouts, who are their natural job competition. They are terrified of being caught for criminal activity because they would be deported immediately. They have very little effect on health care and insurance because they often have neither. And they have trouble accessing social services because of their lack of a social security number.

    Yes, I have a life outside the Internet and Rome Total War
    "Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions" - Stephen Colbert
    Under the kind patronage of Seleukos

  12. #12

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    However, we can always motivate them to work before, by simply cutting funding for welfare. Now, we might actually be doing harm by cutting welfare.

  13. #13
    Darth Wong's Avatar Pit Bull
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    4,020

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee1026
    However, we can always motivate them to work before, by simply cutting funding for welfare. Now, we might actually be doing harm by cutting welfare.
    By this naive logic, the most horribly impoverished parts of the country should have the most eager work force, yet that is the opposite of reality. It seems that attempting to "starve" lower-income people into work only drives them to look for criminal solutions to their money problems.

    Yes, I have a life outside the Internet and Rome Total War
    "Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions" - Stephen Colbert
    Under the kind patronage of Seleukos

  14. #14

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric
    Thats the low end estimate used by pro-illegal immigration propogandists. You know the lying fools that dont know the definition of the word illegal.

    Also last I heard 11 million was a lot of people.
    Why do they have to be lying fools? You just said 11 million is a lot of people.
    Sponsored by the Last Roman

  15. #15

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...nes-california

    Some undocumented workers choose to pay taxes as a way of recording good behavior, so that gaining citizenship later will be easier. This number is steadily increasing.
    "In whom all beings have become one with the knowing soul
    what delusion or sorrow is there for the one who sees unity?"
    -The Isa Upanishad

    "There once was a man John McCain,
    Who had the whole White House to gain.
    But he was quite a hobbyist
    at boning his lobbyist.
    And there goes his '08 campaign."
    -Stephen Colbert

    Under the kind patronage of Seneca

  16. #16
    Lord Rahl's Avatar Behold the Beard
    Content Emeritus

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    The stars at night are big and bright!
    Posts
    13,779

    Default Re: Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye

    Illegals send back millions of dollars every year to Mexico, don't pay for social security, have free healthcare and education, and also take up a large percentage of the border states' prison population (50% to be exact in Anaheim and LA). Less than meets the eye? Please...

    Patron of: Ó Cathasaigh, Major. Stupidity, Kscott, Major König, Nationalist_Cause, Kleos, Rush Limbaugh, General_Curtis_LeMay, and NIKO_TWOW.RU | Patronized by: MadBurgerMaker
    Opifex, Civitate, ex-CdeC, Ex-Urbanis Legio, Ex-Quaestor, Ex-Helios Editor, Sig God, Skin Creator & Badge Forger
    I may be back... | @BeardedRiker

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •