Early Crusaders state campaign.........impossible!!!

[CostantinoXI]

Hello ....
I want to know if anyone has been able to survive with the Crusaders, starting from 1100, is impossible. Economy is zero, and in all the cities buildings are to be built from zero (I think that Jerusalem and Antioch should have a lot of buildings already constructed). I now understand why in all the campaigns, the Crusaders were defeated in a short, I do not think that the Crusaders had been so weak, especially after the conquest of Jerusalem, even though they were always separated by internal struggles for power. In my campaign I have eliminated many mercenary troops, if i pay these mercenaries i can't build anything, I use those few mercenaries troops to conquer Kerak, but loyalty of my generals is low and i can't conquer aleppo, tortosa and acri, also because rebels have a lot of unit in theese cities and i haven't money to recruit more troops. However everything was fine because I had an alliance with the Turks and the Fatimid, but in 1131 they called jihad, my economy went into red, within a few rounds, and I was not able to defend Jerusalem with the few troops I had, ditto for Edessa, so i have lost the game because they conquer kerak and antioch.
I use the bgrIV, VH / VH

[Caesar Clivus]

BGR is supposed to make the game hard

[delra]

BGR is supposed to make the game hard

It doesn't make it hard, it makes it annoying.

[Caesar Clivus]

It doesn't make it hard, it makes it annoying.

For you maybe. Many others love it. If you dont like it, you dont have to use it

[Ultra123]

For you maybe. Many others love it. If you dont like it, you dont have to use it

i happen to agree with delra actually, and i dont use it. sounds like a mod thats very intuitive and would suit a harcore realist down to the T. fortunatly for my sanity, i am not one of hose who would sacrifice gameplay over ego/realism - to a certain extent.

[hellexpress]

i remember someone did vh/vh with GBR on early crusader states and just destroyed egyptian in 10 or 15 turns, who sell the cities for money and end out trapped all royal egyptian members in 1 city

so don't say it impossible

at least i still can play through vh/vh with GBR crusader states

[CostantinoXI]

yes, but the problem isn't the bgrIV , i have done many campaigns with it and i use it well. in my opinion there is something wrong with the buildings in the major cities as jerusalem and antioch, there must be more advanced building, they don't have leather tanner, and other basic building ! in 1100 O_o

[kevindrosario]

If you want to, you could put those buildings in by editing descr_strat.

[TITANAS84]

very difficult.Send diplomat to fatimids.make alliance.give them a city for improve alliance.The turks have war with Byzantines.

[philipjd]

there's a very good AAR on the Crusader states (it's a late campaign so even tougher than the early one) complete with BRG IV, some very good advice in that. And yes, BGR IV takes the level of difficulty to another level
Good luck with it.

[Angrychris]

i think kwaz on late is impossible

[Klarum]

Hello ....
I want to know if anyone has been able to survive with the Crusaders, starting from 1100, is impossible. Economy is zero, and in all the cities buildings are to be built from zero (I think that Jerusalem and Antioch should have a lot of buildings already constructed). I now understand why in all the campaigns, the Crusaders were defeated in a short, I do not think that the Crusaders had been so weak, especially after the conquest of Jerusalem, even though they were always separated by internal struggles for power. In my campaign I have eliminated many mercenary troops, if i pay these mercenaries i can't build anything, I use those few mercenaries troops to conquer Kerak, but loyalty of my generals is low and i can't conquer aleppo, tortosa and acri, also because rebels have a lot of unit in theese cities and i haven't money to recruit more troops. However everything was fine because I had an alliance with the Turks and the Fatimid, but in 1131 they called jihad, my economy went into red, within a few rounds, and I was not able to defend Jerusalem with the few troops I had, ditto for Edessa, so i have lost the game because they conquer kerak and antioch.
I use the bgrIV, VH / VH

actually historically the crusader states were very weak specially after Baldwin died. All they could do was stay inside their castles and little less. Many of soldiers from the first crusade returned home and europe did not support the states economically or militarilly. Second crusade was a total failure and third crusade had only minor victories. After that all holdings were lost. So yeah the mod is not that far off.

I am playing this mod also for the first time as Portugal and it is also really difficult to expand past what is present day Portugal so i guess the mod is doing a good job at historical accuray

[Ichon]

You have some tough choices as CS in 1100. I'll advise you to not disband your mercenary troops though as they are the best you will get until cities are built up. As you said economy starts poor so ignore Kerak at first as it provides very little money. Once you get Tortosa and Acri the money situation will improve- then take Kerak as if you take it earlier you won't have much money to build it up anyway. With BGR you can expect several turns of negative money but once you use the mercenary troops hard then dismiss them when you've captured at least 2-3 cities your debt will get paid off and you can build up more cities. You usually get about 10-15 turns before your neighbors declare war. Sometimes alot longer- use that time well.

Alternatively you can group all your armies together and go after Fatimids directly after you capture a couple other cities. Fatimids start weak and are easier to beat before turn 15. With BGR its unlikely you can hold the cities you capture but you might have a chance at holding Gaza if you put all your priests there while sacking and looting Damietta and Cairo will help pay the bills and set back Fatimids several turns.

There are at least 2 or 3 BGR Crusaders AARs out there. Mine in signature is a little old version of BGR but only a few differences. The other AARs focus on more recent versions and late era. The main difference in late from early era is how built up the cities are and the religious issues. My campaign the hardest part was getting religion to 50% and maintaining it there with all the Imams flooding in.

[YuriVII]

I did something unique and unexpected. I got pretty frustrated with having to fight off Egypt in Turks that I packed up to Cyprus and became a pirate faction. I raided Alexandria to Cairo burning all the buildings off. Those cities are usually quite undefended since Fatimids have a 1 front expansion. I also hit Iconium and Corinth. When I took Cyprus my next stop was Rhodes and then to Sicily. I didnt get too far in the campaign because I got tired of SS in general but I can say that my situation stabilized to the point where I can look at expanding permanently elsewhere.

[-Myth-]

They are definitely possible if you don't use BGR. In one of our current SS hotseats over at the .org the CS player killed of the AI Fatamids without even using a Crusade. In 11 turns.

[merocaine]

Truce with the Turks if you can.

Crusade Cairo and blitz the Fatimids, take Cairo and you cripple there economy. Use the Crusade for free upkeep and mercenaries, Before you take Cairo use one of your crusading armies to clean out any Fatimid stacks lurking around then siege Gaza. Take Cairo and Gaza. Move on to Alexandria, momentum is key, don't allow the Fatimids time to recover, dont worry about short term debt, once you have the core Fatimid lands you should start raking it in.

You should aim to cripple the Fatimids within 20 turns, do not turtle and hope they will leave you alone, it wont happen and once you strip your northern borders to hold off the Fatimids the Turks will move in, game over.

[popovic]

Truce with the Turks if you can.

Crusade Cairo and blitz the Fatimids, take Cairo and you cripple there economy. Use the Crusade for free upkeep and mercenaries, Before you take Cairo use one of your crusading armies to clean out any Fatimid stacks lurking around then siege Gaza. Take Cairo and Gaza. Move on to Alexandria, momentum is key, don't allow the Fatimids time to recover, dont worry about short term debt, once you have the core Fatimid lands you should start raking it in.

You should aim to cripple the Fatimids within 20 turns, do not turtle and hope they will leave you alone, it wont happen and once you strip your northern borders to hold off the Fatimids the Turks will move in, game over.

Most of what you just mentioned is not possible with BGR+Longer Assimilation.
Just sayin...

[merocaine]

Most of what you just mentioned is not possible with BGR+Longer Assimilation.
Just sayin...

.... maybe I should read the post in future!!

[ash874]

Hello ....
I want to know if anyone has been able to survive with the Crusaders, starting from 1100, is impossible. Economy is zero, and in all the cities buildings are to be built from zero (I think that Jerusalem and Antioch should have a lot of buildings already constructed). I now understand why in all the campaigns, the Crusaders were defeated in a short, I do not think that the Crusaders had been so weak, especially after the conquest of Jerusalem, even though they were always separated by internal struggles for power. In my campaign I have eliminated many mercenary troops, if i pay these mercenaries i can't build anything, I use those few mercenaries troops to conquer Kerak, but loyalty of my generals is low and i can't conquer aleppo, tortosa and acri, also because rebels have a lot of unit in theese cities and i haven't money to recruit more troops. However everything was fine because I had an alliance with the Turks and the Fatimid, but in 1131 they called jihad, my economy went into red, within a few rounds, and I was not able to defend Jerusalem with the few troops I had, ditto for Edessa, so i have lost the game because they conquer kerak and antioch.
I use the bgrIV, VH / VH

never tried bgr4 and from what i read it a big difference
but i played the early crusde campaign on vhvh at least 7 full times
won them all
id say its the easiest campaign in the game
in fact if the future of the world would depend on me winning a game of tw i would hope to play as the crusaders
first turn you siege gaza
second turn you take it
the fatimids are done for - that simple
you can also take akaba but its a little hard to defend at first
if you play without loads like i sometimes decide for myself, then dont take akaba
send all your northen troops to the south
the turks are still a long way from you
seperate the cavalary from the rest so that it can come to your aid faster
you have a bucketload of crazy powerful soldiers with rediculously low maintenance
you ARE the most powerful freaking faction in this game

[Heskey]

I'm still on the fence whether or not BGR is good or not.

Don't get me wrong by that statement; the mod itself is impeccable for its purpose and I've enjoyed (and got frustrated) by its realistic limitations.

I've played with it for so long though that I don't think I'd be able to play without it, even if it did mean I don't just give up campaigns after 25 turns!