Spies & opened gates

**oxxid** · October 04, 2011, 08:54 AM

I was wondering... Has any of you had an ennemy spy open your gates at a siege defensive battle ?

After years of playing M2TW, native of modded, it never happened to me.

**Ishan** · October 04, 2011, 08:56 AM

It has happened to me, that's why it's better to garrison a spy in order to avoid this situation.

**Caesar Clivus** · October 04, 2011, 09:12 AM

Yep I've had it happen to me

**oxxid** · October 04, 2011, 10:50 AM

I guess it's because of my bad habit of having a spy in all my border settlements then... God it's good to feel so clever

**philipjd** · October 04, 2011, 12:39 PM

sadly has happened to me, even with a garrison spy

**Ichon** · October 04, 2011, 12:40 PM

It is rare but I've had it happen a couple times as well. I don't mind that much as towers still fire and oil still pours. It usually only makes a small 10% difference of enemy casualties early in the battle which might cost me extra 5% at most.

I prefer to keep spies with my armies. Assassinations of my commanders have been much more problem than opening of gates.

**Knight of Heaven** · October 04, 2011, 02:33 PM

It happen to me sometimes, very rare though, but i remember happen in RTW too.

**MikeNice808** · October 04, 2011, 03:46 PM

It happened to me during a mongol invasion. Damned mongolians got in and wound up slaughtering all my troops like nothing. My guys were spread out on the fortress all over the place and their mounted troops blitzed right in and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Bummer...

**oxxid** · October 04, 2011, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by MikeNice808

It happened to me during a mongol invasion. Damned mongolians got in and wound up slaughtering all my troops like nothing. My guys were spread out on the fortress all over the place and their mounted troops blitzed right in and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Bummer...

Ouch. Mongols + gates opened is a real bad luck mix.

**MikeNice808** · October 04, 2011, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by oxxid

Ouch. Mongols + gates opened is a real bad luck mix.

I was morbidly amazed at how quickly I was dismantled. I tried retreating and regrouping to the inner section of the fortress and not one unit(and I was near or fully stacked) made it....it was wholesale Ukrainian slaughter....I HATE MONGOLS!!!!

**philipjd** · October 05, 2011, 07:02 AM

slightly tangential - but one of my best remembered SS games was playing as Ukraine, controlled all of Russia just about and was having a succesful war against the Byzantines, but it ended up as more likea migration campaign as I lost cities and fortresses to the mongols while taking them from the Byzantines. Ended up controlling all of asia minor and the balkans but with Smolensk and Ryazan remaining from my Russian territories with Bessarbarabia (what ever the in game name is) being the place that the Mongols ran our of steam against me before the ever so slow re-conquista.

I don't use stakes at gates which can massacre all (most) mongol assaults.

**MikeNice808** · October 05, 2011, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by philipjd

slightly tangential - but one of my best remembered SS games was playing as Ukraine, controlled all of Russia just about and was having a succesful war against the Byzantines, but it ended up as more likea migration campaign as I lost cities and fortresses to the mongols while taking them from the Byzantines. Ended up controlling all of asia minor and the balkans but with Smolensk and Ryazan remaining from my Russian territories with Bessarbarabia (what ever the in game name is) being the place that the Mongols ran our of steam against me before the ever so slow re-conquista.

I don't use stakes at gates which can massacre all (most) mongol assaults.

I use the stakes as it even out the fact that my troops are totally inferior to the Mongloids. They stay fighting even when their general is dead when my guys turn tail and run. They have a crazy range with their archers that I can't compete with and they come 100 in a stack when I get 80 at the most. They are superior in every way so I gotta even it out somehow...

**Lord Baal** · October 05, 2011, 09:22 AM

It happened to me in a couple of times. One of which made me loose an important settlement in a battle that otherwise would have been winnable.

**Angrychris** · October 07, 2011, 09:34 AM

In the past i noticed the more i use spys/ assassins the more the ai does. not often do spys open my gates but it has happened. i use spys a lot but rarely for gating opening.

**oxxid** · October 07, 2011, 10:42 AM

I do use them quite often myself.

To the point that it makes it too easy to take a city that way. You send 2 to 4 spies several times (easier if you have a thief's guild headquarters, your spies are well trained to the beginning), you soon have between 80 to 100% chances to open the gates.

That's where you can see AI get reeeally stupid. Putting your troops sufficiently far from the gates before the battle makes the ennemy's troops all go to the center of the city, systematically.
Then I move forward slowly to the front of the gates, so as not to tire my troops, and to keep them in formation, otherwise if you give them from the start the order to go IN the city, they spread and leave soldiers behind, quite annoying.

To a point, the ennemy starts to react at my approach, I then order solid defensive infantry and cavalry to "run" and get inside before the ennemy reaches the walls, naturally the cavalry gets there first, usually the AI had sent archers to begin with so it's piece of cake, but not too long, as soon as my "defensive" troops get there I pull back my cavalry as they're beginning to suffer from the ennemy infantry.

And here it is : The ennemy is pinned not too close from the walls, my archers well positioned on them, no eed to draw you a picture. To that point, the ennemy will start to retreat to the center, I usually have to send archers to tickle them to draw them again near the walls, until more than 50% of the ennemy army is down. Then they stay to the center. Heavy infantry surrounds them, and it's finished.

For me opened gates triggers the worst AI behavior of the game.

The AI should be reworked on this special case, and maybe meanwhile we should max the percentage of "opened gates" to 30% chances.

**Rat-tail** · October 07, 2011, 03:56 PM

I would like to see the AI use the spies better and more often. The more help it has the better and more over interest in the game we will have.

**Homeros** · October 08, 2011, 06:06 AM

I cannot remember the AI ever used spies to open the gates the way I use them.

To those who did experience this: did the AI attack immediately? By that I mean they lay siege and attack in the same turn coz that's never happened in my campaigns - they always attack the next turn at best. Sometimes their spies opened the gates, but they still spend a turn constructing siege equipment for some reason.

**Knight of Heaven** · October 08, 2011, 03:08 PM

NO they didnt atack immediately, they wait one turn bulding they siege towers and rams, but they dont use then, they all rushed through the gates, wich is bad thing, becouse the player never see it coming, only after deploy, meaning you waste your time deploying your defensive troops counting that the enemy will storm the walls, and suddnely they rush the gates.

more harder.

**Homeros** · October 08, 2011, 03:27 PM

Thanks Knight of Heaven, does anyone know why the AI always waits a turn? I guess it must be hard-coded or someone would have changed that already. Would be more fun if the AI could take your cities in a single turn though. The AI is pretty good at laying siege, but terrible in siege-warfare.

**gaiusjulii** · October 12, 2011, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven

It happen to me sometimes, very rare though, but i remember happen in RTW too.

It was much more common in RTW I haven't been playing MTW2 long enough clearly. But my STD garrison is 4 spearmen and 4 archers so it's never big a big problem at least I'll give em a busted nose,

I have noticed a lot of people referring to spikes what are they and how are they deployed I have only had MTW2 for a few weeks so apologies for noob questions.

NO2EU