Is It Possible to Revamp the Urban Planning of an Already Existing and Running City?

[jankren]

Right now Im back in Indonesia from the US and I have to say that if there is hell, it probably has better infrastructural condition than here. Everywhere I go, the roads are narrow, mostly consisting of only two lanes and its extremely hard to get from one point to another unless you already know the area very well because the streets dont follow grid patterns, thus they are such a horrible mess.

I believe this situation is something very common in every developing country. So I wonder if this is fixable? Is it possible to do a total overhaul on the infrastructure of an already existing and bustling city?

[Blau&Gruen]

I believe this situation is something very common in every developing country. So I wonder if this is fixable? Is it possible to do a total overhaul on the infrastructure of an already existing and bustling city?

You can put parts of the traffic infrastructure under the ground and influence by incentives in combination with regimentation the spatial development of settlements, e.g. increasing the utilization of space already in use and decreasing the utilization of space you want to use less intensive, e.g. green zones, agrarian areas or areas that you want to keep natural for environmental reasons. There are possibilities to fix mistakes in urban development certainly but they require time, money, creativity and last but not least the political will.

[Treize]

Just blame it on the white man and extort money from them.

[Prosaic Visitant]

Indeed it is fixable; simply evacuate the people and their possessions; carpet bomb the ghost city; rebuild as desired.

You can put parts of the traffic infrastructure under the ground and influence by incentives in combination with regimentation the spatial development of settlements, e.g. increasing the utilization of space already in use and decreasing the utilization of space you want to use less intensive, e.g. green zones, agrarian areas or areas that you want to keep natural for environmental reasons. There are possibilities to fix mistakes in urban development certainly but they require time, money, creativity and last but not least the political will.

You sound informed about this, so how viable is it to be a second layer of roads elevated above the ground ones in a medieval town?

[Jagdpanzer]

Right now Im back in Indonesia from the US and I have to say that if there is hell, it probably has better infrastructural condition than here. Everywhere I go, the roads are narrow, mostly consisting of only two lanes and its extremely hard to get from one point to another unless you already know the area very well because the streets dont follow grid patterns, thus they are such a horrible mess.

I believe this situation is something very common in every developing country. So I wonder if this is fixable? Is it possible to do a total overhaul on the infrastructure of an already existing and bustling city?

Yes, it can be done. The renovation of Paris by Baron Hausmann is a very famous example. Paris' current form with its long open boulevards are the result of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussma...ation_of_Paris

[Condottiere 40K]

Sure, if you have the political will, enough money and competent people at the helm.

Because of the possibility of earthquakes, there's going to be an upper tolerance of how high skyscrapers will be built, which means cities are going to begin going underground, and probably will start to resemble the scifi images that used to be popular.

[Menelik_I]

Right now Im back in Indonesia from the US and I have to say that if there is hell, it probably has better infrastructural condition than here. Everywhere I go, the roads are narrow, mostly consisting of only two lanes and its extremely hard to get from one point to another unless you already know the area very well because the streets dont follow grid patterns, thus they are such a horrible mess.

I believe this situation is something very common in every developing country. So I wonder if this is fixable? Is it possible to do a total overhaul on the infrastructure of an already existing and bustling city?

It is going to be very expensive if you raze the city and then rebuild it from scratch.

Better to build ''organized'' urban area around first, trying to train population and business from the center and then when prices fall demolish anything needed to make broader and more straight lines, provided you pay compensation.

[jankren]

I wish to turn this:



Into this:

[Menelik_I]

I wish to turn this:



Into this:

Build the nice US style city around the presently existing Jakarta, then start demolishing to make broad roads. Anything else will cost trillions.

[Mr. Scott]

I wish to turn this:



Into this:

Hey you can see my house from there

Irvine is a very very well-planned out city that is currently undergoing a massive process of development.

Planned cities, when done correctly and if there is a demand for it, can be enormously good.
Here in Irvine and Southern Orange County the streets are never crowded, the shops are always busy, but never jammed, the high-rises are getting filled up and more are in development.

When I was younger, Irvine was just another suburb, now its becoming a full-fledged city comparable to Westwood or Long Beach. If I remember correctly, the freeway here contains the most lanes for any freeway in the world. Even during rushhour there is little traffic. And that's a very massive accomplishment for a city in an area like Southern California.
And then there's the easy access to Boba and delicious (and authentic) Asian cuisine

But if you force a planned city on a population that does not want or need it, you get cities like Chenggong or Ordos (please I'm just using this as an example because they are the ones that popped into my head first, no need to devolve this thread into a China one )

[jankren]

Hey you can see my house from there

Irvine is a very very well-planned out city that is currently undergoing a massive process of development.

Planned cities, when done correctly and if there is a demand for it, can be enormously good.
Here in Irvine and Southern Orange County the streets are never crowded, the shops are always busy, but never jammed, the high-rises are getting filled up and more are in development.

When I was younger, Irvine was just another suburb, now its becoming a full-fledged city comparable to Westwood or Long Beach. If I remember correctly, the freeway here contains the most lanes for any freeway in the world. Even during rushhour there is little traffic. And that's a very massive accomplishment for a city in an area like Southern California.
And then there's the easy access to Boba and delicious (and authentic) Asian cuisine

But if you force a planned city on a population that does not want or need it, you get cities like Chenggong or Ordos (please I'm just using this as an example because they are the ones that popped into my head first, no need to devolve this thread into a China one )

I used to live in Westminster. If there is heaven, I bet it wont be as comfortable to live there as it is to live in Orange County.

I think huge roads are very beneficial for the economy of a country and the happiness of its citizens.

[Condottiere 40K]

I used to live in Westminster. If there is heaven, I bet it wont be as comfortable to live there as it is to live in Orange County.

I think huge roads are very beneficial for the economy of a country and the happiness of its citizens.

A solid transport infrastructure easily accessible to all quarters, efficient and cheap; it can take multiple forms, since at this moment in time, I consider a high speed electrical train network the most efficient way to transport goods and people between urban areas, and a bus and tram network the most efficient within a city; walking the most green mode.

[Ancient Aliens]

While it may not be as efficient, I think Old World hodge-podge planning is interesting and unique.

[Exarch]

do this; evacuate everyone from jakarta; then plant a thermonuke at the centre, wait for the conflagration to dissipate then rebuild.

and if u think that's not a good idea, compare Hiroshima today to Detroit. One was actually nuked, the other one looks like it was just nuked.

[Condottiere 40K]

Wait long enough, and a volcano may well do the job for you.

[Exarch]

ask anyone in real estate and they'll-if you'll pardon the cliche-tell u it's all about location, location, location.
Ordos is in the middle of nowhere; most Chinese would prefer to live in a major city like Chongqing, Tianjin, Guangzhou, Shanghai (if u can afford it lol).

JAkarta's problem is similar to Dhaka's; too many ppl in a small area

[Mr. Scott]

ask anyone in real estate and they'll-if you'll pardon the cliche-tell u it's all about location, location, location.
Ordos is in the middle of nowhere; most Chinese would prefer to live in a major city like Chongqing, Tianjin, Guangzhou, Shanghai (if u can afford it lol).

JAkarta's problem is similar to Dhaka's; too many ppl in a small area

Indeed. An Irvine like city would not have worked in Kansas...

But when planned cities do work they are awesome indeed
And even with all this rapid urbanization occurring in Irvine they still have tons of wildlife and hilly grassland.

I think the Chinese government is too much into the whole spray and pray tactic, which is why you get cities like Ordos. It doesn't plan out its form of attack meticulously enough (although at least it actually has a plan unlike here in California )

[Exarch]

California's not too bad lol california's problem is mainly outdated infrastructure i reckon, but if i had to pick between kansas or california, i'd still pick california
most Chinese cities today-even in Taiwan were based on ancient city plan's which were gridlike; think square within a square. What most westerners who come to China complain about when they bemoan the clearing away of Beijing's hutongs (meaning the small, sidestreet neighbourhoods) is the clearing away of the orientalism of their fantasies. Same deal with Urumqi.

but with respect to Jakarta; i've been to Jakarta, nice place, kept getting hassled by all the street hawkers but as Indonesia develops it makes sense to improve infrastructure.


what it needs is for ppl to clear off the city, plant a thermonuke in the centre, then rebuild afterwards

[Claudius Gothicus]

I believe this situation is something very common in every developing country. So I wonder if this is fixable? Is it possible to do a total overhaul on the infrastructure of an already existing and bustling city?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris

[Col. Tartleton]

Exarch has a point, Hiroshima and Nagasaki are beautiful...