Why I don't preach Islam

[thelionheart]

to tell you the truth, I don't care if any one goes to hell. I don't want to go there, but if any body wants to then be my guest. Even though hell is a very horrible place, in which I strongly believe that non-Muslims will suffer in it from pain and humiliation till eternity. I don't care if you loose the heaven and all the women there is.

Yes beautiful women, custom created for the soul purpose of pleasing you. And men for women for the same purpose. For ever relief from any pain and sorrow and living all eternity in peace and happiness. I truly believe that that is what's going to happen!


ok, now seriously. The above two paragraphs were just a way to prove a certain point so please don't take them seriously. the thesis statement for this topic is: what do you think about people who believe in the above and don't preach? aren't they evil? or do they suffer from the lack of faith Syndrome?

[panzer 4]

“So if they dispute with you, say ‘I have submitted my whole self to God, and so have those who follow me.’ And say to the People of the Scripture and to the unlearned: ‘Do you also submit yourselves?’ If they do, then they are on right guidance. But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message. And in God’s sight are all of His servants.”

[thelionheart]

“So if they dispute with you, say ‘I have submitted my whole self to God, and so have those who follow me.’ And say to the People of the Scripture and to the unlearned: ‘Do you also submit yourselves?’ If they do, then they are on right guidance. But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message. And in God’s sight are all of His servants.”

I bet that you are the first one to read past the first sentence

[AngryTitusPullo]

I bet that you are the first one to read past the first sentence

I was about to reply the same thing like panzer did...

Since he/she already did then I just say, for me what I believe, for you what you believe.

Regarding the preaching stuff for me it depends on one's duty. I mean for me I have the duty to preach (okay, maybe not preach but teach or guide) my wife and my kinds.

However it's not my duty to preach to my colleague who sits besides me which happened to believe different than I.

Am I evil ? Yes I am...

...the Metallica version

[thelionheart]

They would suffer from a psychological disorder (the notion that sex is the cure for all evils).

And they'd be totally retarded, because as if people go around bonking in heaven. I mean, it's so carnal and worldly the whole idea is obviously insulting to anybody with half a brain. It's translating worldly pleasures into heavenly ones.

I know that atheists and people of different faith want believe that easily. However how moral is a person who believes this strongly and doesn't preach it?

Am I evil ? Yes I am...

I never preach or even defend Islam. I'm only interested in not being stereotyped as a terrorist. I guess that makes me evil too

I think that belief is....hmm..to use the most polite term I can, incorrect.

However my point is: If you believe in that and don't preach it how moral are you?

Disclaimer: The paragraph you quoted doesn't necessarily describe my believes.

[basics]

“So if they dispute with you, say ‘I have submitted my whole self to God, and so have those who follow me.’ And say to the People of the Scripture and to the unlearned: ‘Do you also submit yourselves?’ If they do, then they are on right guidance. But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message. And in God’s sight are all of His servants.”

panzer 4,

For sure God's commandment is to love Him with all your heart and all your mind but the extraordinary thing is that God introduced the Law to Moses that the people understood that none, not one, can do these things, why? Because all men and women are sinners and God hates sin so where can man find the need or the works to overcome the Law, even a Muslim?

The Law doesn't have mercy in its remit, indeed all it requires is to condemn men and women who are in sin so that when they are called heaven is not the place that they go. Muslims seek mercy so in effect they admit to being in sin so where is this submission to God to come from when the Law denies anyone the privilege?

Good works or good attempts at living won't change the nature of man, even Muslims, so where does this dream come from? It is written that only God justifies, the Hebrew means perfects, so where is the Muslim to get such perfection when at best he hopes for mercy? Perfection comes by being spotless, sinless, where God and His Law can find nothing to object to so Islam is confronted by a huge problem for which it has no answer but hope.

The only hope that the world ever had Islam rejected at its beginning and still does. Indeed He said that there is no sex in heaven and He is accepted as being a Prophet of God by the very people who reject Him. If one ever preaches Islam one has to be prepared for scrutiny and any religion that cannot stand scrutiny is no religion at all. Islam doesn't like scrutiny, has no answer to God's Law, has no answer as to how sin is taken away and therefore is not worth preaching about.

When Jesus Christ was on this planet He raised the dead, healed the sick, made the blind to see and most importantly taught us how to get past the Law that demands death, as a sign to the people who exactly He was and still is. He taught us that rebirth through the Spirit of God was the only way, and He is your Prophet, yet our God and still you are not allowed to accept this, why? After all Mohammed never did any of these things and you believe him, so why not someone much higher and greater?

[thelionheart]

all men and women are sinners and God hates sin so where can man find the need or the works to overcome the Law, even a Muslim?

from the Islamic point of view, all human beings are sinful. However, they also have an urge to reject their sins.

The Law doesn't have mercy in its remit,

Surely God can bypass his own Laws!

Muslims seek mercy so in effect they admit to being in sin so where is this submission to God to come from when the Law denies anyone the privilege?

Sins are offenses against god or other human beings or animals or plants. A sin is forgiven if the other offended forgives the offender. Truly offending god want cause him harm or to lose anything so a simple apology seams a bit less radical than sacrificing himself/his son.

I even believe that it's a better theology as well. Instead of seeking forgiveness by only accepting an idea. The Muslim has to try his best to be as good as possible and always try to correct his mistakes to achieve god's blessing.

Good works or good attempts at living won't change the nature of man, even Muslims, so where does this dream come from? It is written that only God justifies, the Hebrew means perfects, so where is the Muslim to get such perfection when at best he hopes for mercy? Perfection comes by being spotless, sinless, where God and His Law can find nothing to object to so Islam is confronted by a huge problem for which it has no answer but hope.

Perfection is not needed.

Islam doesn't like scrutiny, has no answer to God's Law, has no answer as to how sin is taken away and therefore is not worth preaching about.

Islam does like scrutiny. In fact much of the Quranic text asks people to think. However, Muslims don't. They could have translated the Quran in a million tolerant way, yet they choose one of the few that bares a negative meaning. Please bare in mind that not all Muslims view the Quran in the same way.

As for the God's law... what law and as for sins, sins are only a mental concept so I don't know what do you mean by how is the sin taken away

It is said that Mohammed's miracle was the Koran,

There are other claims for miracles that include splitting the moon in half, feeding an army from a small amount of food, and a cloud following him to give him shade.

I actually think it is that people still follow a warlord bandit fond of chopping of his enemies heads in the 21st century.

that sir, is flat logic. How can you assume that more than a billion people would follow someone they would consider a bandit!! Mohammad united the Arabs under one law and that is his greatest achievement. How can you compare the creator of an empire to a bandit.

[basics]

" from the Islamic point of view, all human beings are sinful. However, they also have an urge to reject their sins. "

thelionheart,

That may well be true but nonetheless the Law has condemned you so where is the mercy to come from since God Himself made the Law?


" Surely God can bypass his own Laws!"

No, and for one good reason. God is righteous and therefore His Law is also righteous so unless there is a change to the Law it is not possible for another one simple and good reason. The Testator of the Law, God, has to die before the Law can be changed but Islam refuses to accept that God can die just as we all do except for one supernatural occasion which it refuses to accept.


" Sins are offenses against god or other human beings or animals or plants. A sin is forgiven if the other offended forgives the offender. Truly offending god want cause him harm or to lose anything so a simple apology seams a bit less radical than sacrificing himself/his son."

Sin is the curse that man has had installed into his nature and no-one is devoid of it. The Law does not forgive. It demands death to the naturalised sinner without mercy. If forgiving each other was the answer why is it that Islamic peoples need mercy? Simply put man cannot eraze sin regardless of his impression of what sin is.


" I even believe that it's a better theology as well. Instead of seeking forgiveness by only accepting an idea. The Muslim has to try his best to be as good as possible and always try to correct his mistakes to achieve god's blessing."

It is written that God does not listen to the prayers of sinners or heed the works of sinners since He cannot even look on sin, so how on earth are the good works of sinners expected to please God? Therefore the Muslim is quite wrong to think these things and Mohammed was quite wrong to make that a part of salvation or entry into heaven.

" Perfection is not needed."

Oh but it is very much needed for entry to heaven, because any one small part of sin on any person will not gain entry to anywhere but hell. The Hebrew words that cover all the regenerate, born again, peoples of the Bible are righteous, sanctified, holy, glorified and perfected all mean the same thing and that is perfect, spotless, sinless. This started with righteous Abel way back at the very beginning and carried on through the Prophets and every other saint, going on right up until the eve of the very last day.

" Islam does like scrutiny. In fact much of the Quranic text asks people to think. However, Muslims don't. They could have translated the Quran in a million tolerant way, yet they choose one of the few that bares a negative meaning. Please bare in mind that not all Muslims view the Quran in the same way."

It wouldn't have mattered whatever way the Koran was written because it fundamentally destroys all that the Law, the Psalms and the Prophets have said regarding the good news of Jesus Christ and by doing so leaves every single Muslim with no method to gain salvation for their sins.

" As for the God's law... what law and as for sins, sins are only a mental concept so I don't know what do you mean by how is the sin taken away "

Up until the Law was given by angels to Moses the only law that mankind had was natural law, that is the law that governed his and her sinful nature, so in effect he and she knew no wrong in what they did. Moses' Law exposed that, meaning that man, Israelite or whatever, whatever they did sin raised its ugly head revealing how deep their sin was. It condemns without mercy by revelation that all men are sinners and unless they can find an alternative they are already destined for death and hell. That is what Mohammed seals you all into.

" There are other claims for miracles that include splitting the moon in half, feeding an army from a small amount of food, and a cloud following him to give him shade. "

All quite natural occurrences that even the most imaginative has to accept comes nowhere near to the miracles, the signs, that Jesus Christ did and did because He was God with us according to Gabriel. Now if that angel had delivered to Mary and others a false message then, in the name of God, how unrational would it have been for God to use him again for anything, never mind what he is supposed to have told Mohammed. I think Islam does not understand who God is.

" that sir, is flat logic. How can you assume that more than a billion people would follow someone they would consider a bandit!! Mohammad united the Arabs under one law and that is his greatest achievement. How can you compare the creator of an empire to a bandit."

Plenty of Empires have been built on what started as banditry but that is not the issue here. Islam like Roman Catholicism was built on the sword, not the sword of truth but the sword of death. Whilst these factions were doing their empire building Jesus Christ was calling out a certain people for Himself and still does even from out of these two ambitious factions. That is the power of God and none can stop it.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Because all men and women are sinners and God hates sin so where can man find the need or the works to overcome the Law, even a Muslim?

Then why did God created sins ?

Don't you still understand that Islam (or Judaism for that matter which was practices by Jesus himself) did not subscribe to the idea of original sins ?

You can't use British law in Singapore, can't use Polish law in Denmark, likewise can't use Christian (or should I say Paulian) concept in Islam.

[panzer 4]

“So if they dispute with you, say ‘I have submitted my whole self to God, and so have those who follow me.’ And say to the People of the Scripture and to the unlearned: ‘Do you also submit yourselves?’ If they do, then they are on right guidance. But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message. And in God’s sight are all of His servants.”

panzer 4,

For sure God's commandment is to love Him with all your heart and all your mind but the extraordinary thing is that God introduced the Law to Moses that the people understood that none, not one, can do these things, why? Because all men and women are sinners and God hates sin so where can man find the need or the works to overcome the Law, even a Muslim?

The Law doesn't have mercy in its remit, indeed all it requires is to condemn men and women who are in sin so that when they are called heaven is not the place that they go. Muslims seek mercy so in effect they admit to being in sin so where is this submission to God to come from when the Law denies anyone the privilege?

Good works or good attempts at living won't change the nature of man, even Muslims, so where does this dream come from? It is written that only God justifies, the Hebrew means perfects, so where is the Muslim to get such perfection when at best he hopes for mercy? Perfection comes by being spotless, sinless, where God and His Law can find nothing to object to so Islam is confronted by a huge problem for which it has no answer but hope.

The only hope that the world ever had Islam rejected at its beginning and still does. Indeed He said that there is no sex in heaven and He is accepted as being a Prophet of God by the very people who reject Him. If one ever preaches Islam one has to be prepared for scrutiny and any religion that cannot stand scrutiny is no religion at all. Islam doesn't like scrutiny, has no answer to God's Law, has no answer as to how sin is taken away and therefore is not worth preaching about.

When Jesus Christ was on this planet He raised the dead, healed the sick, made the blind to see and most importantly taught us how to get past the Law that demands death, as a sign to the people who exactly He was and still is. He taught us that rebirth through the Spirit of God was the only way, and He is your Prophet, yet our God and still you are not allowed to accept this, why? After all Mohammed never did any of these things and you believe him, so why not someone much higher and greater?

unlike christianity Basics, Islam doesnt say "all humanity is damned and sinful" Islam has the principle that every single man and woman, have the equal ability to do good, or do bad. it is because of this, Islam doesnt say that you are all going to go to hell, no, even muslims can go to hell, just because they accepted the prophecy, doesnt mean they are automatically saved. Pharoah, the one who was going to kill Moses, just before he died, he declared he believed in Moses God, and it was a sincere repentance, yet, he does not enter heaven, why? because he spent his whole life rejecting god, and he only converted, just before his death. furthermore, controversial muslim leaders, such as Saddam Hussein, who gassed the kurds, or did mass executions, finnally did do a great turn around from his previous ways when he left his power base. the things he did in power in front of the people were religious, the usual shouts of allahu akbar and praying on national television, were never done in private, mostly drinking wine, whoring around and using torture and extensive spy networks, which are completely forbidden in islam. these are known as Munafiqeen in Islam and Munafiqeen are seen as enemies who are even greater then standing armies.

Instead, leaders like Umar Mukhtar are the ones that the muslim leaders should look to, a man fighting in archaic ways defeating a far superior modern fighting force. and he, who accepted islam, his whole life, was admired by his enemies and supporters. during his interrogation, he would just repeat verses from the quran, which astounded his captors. That, is a true believer, a man who fought for the defence of his land and people, and never gave up on religion, even until his last breath.

Personally, i dont believe all humanity is damned and going to hell, God, in his greatest wisdom, would not make us so that we all are damned, but rather, gives us an equal chance to enter heaven, and equally so to enter hell, which is interesting because God, according to Islam says that the smallest sin you earn is 1, but the smallest good deed is worth 10 times more, surely this is mercy at its greatest?

[boofhead]

They would suffer from a psychological disorder (the notion that sex is the cure for all evils).

And they'd be totally retarded, because as if people go around bonking in heaven. I mean, it's so carnal and worldly the whole idea is obviously insulting to anybody with half a brain. It's translating worldly pleasures into heavenly ones.

[Heinz Guderian]

They would suffer from a psychological disorder (the notion that sex is the cure for all evils).

And they'd be totally retarded, because as if people go around bonking in heaven. I mean, it's so carnal and worldly the whole idea is obviously insulting to anybody with half a brain. It's translating worldly pleasures into heavenly ones.

ok i'm pretty sure you are doing it wrong

[Simon Cashmere]

to tell you the truth, I don't care if any one goes to hell. I don't want to go there, but if any body wants to then be my guest. Even though hell is a very horrible place, in which I strongly believe that non-Muslims will suffer in it from pain and humiliation till eternity. I don't care if you loose the heaven and all the women there is.

I think that belief is....hmm..to use the most polite term I can, incorrect.

There is nothing rational or logical to back it up. I could say I believe that you are going to hell because you don't believe in Vishnu, or the God of the Christians, or Odin the Norse God. It doesn't make it true. As religious beliefs are mutually exclusive, in that they all proclaim to have the one true god, and so, all of them cannot be true. But your particular one is true?

We are a complex collection of cells that is self-aware. Because of this self-awareness, we like to believe that we are far more special than we are, and that there is some complex divine plan by any number of different gods. People are frightened by dying and draw comfort from believing that a wise man on a throne is looking after them. I believe that is a bit like adults believing in Santa Claus. Yes its nice to believe in mystical beings as a kid, but when you are an adult - you deal with reality and the truth, no matter how disturbing that might be.

[Simon Cashmere]

When Jesus Christ was on this planet He raised the dead, healed the sick, made the blind to see and most importantly taught us how to get past the Law that demands death, as a sign to the people who exactly He was and still is. He taught us that rebirth through the Spirit of God was the only way, and He is your Prophet, yet our God and still you are not allowed to accept this, why? After all Mohammed never did any of these things and you believe him, so why not someone much higher and greater?

It is said that Mohammed's miracle was the Koran, I actually think it is that people still follow a warlord bandit fond of chopping of his enemies heads in the 21st century.

While I think Christianity is non-dangerous nonsense compared to Islam, I still think its nonsense. And in the end, there will be plenty of self-serving statements in the Bible to say why it is correct. But that is not evidence of anything, let alone proof.

If people wish to have religious beliefs about Gods, whatever they are - that's fine - but they should not pretend they are logical beliefs based on facts and evidence. No matter how widely held they may be.

[basics]

" While I think Christianity is non-dangerous nonsense compared to Islam, I still think its nonsense. And in the end, there will be plenty of self-serving statements in the Bible to say why it is correct. But that is not evidence of anything, let alone proof. "

Simon Cashmere,

That's a fair statement to make if one looks at the general picture that is claiming to be Christian. The thing is it is not Biblical Christianity. Its foundation lies on whether the promises it makes are real and when a man or woman who has never known Jesus Christ has their lives turned around so that all they think of is Him that surely is evidence enough. They can witness to what they once were and can witness to what they experience in and by the power that is in them now.

[Helm]

ok, now seriously. The above two paragraphs were just a way to prove a certain point so please don't take them seriously. the thesis statement for this topic is: what do you think about people who believe in the above and don't preach? aren't they evil? or do they suffer from the lack of faith Syndrome?

I would just think they're scared of death or something.

[Helm]

If there is some kind of points system then there must be some people who were just one point away from getting into heaven.

[thelionheart]

If there is some kind of points system then there must be some people who were just one point away from getting into heaven.

Such people will go to hell first and then go to heaven. However, Muslims rely on the mercy of god. A god who calls himself merciful can't send people like those into hell.

[Helm]

Such people will go to hell first and then go to heaven. However, Muslims rely on the mercy of god. A god who calls himself merciful can't send people like those into hell.

God will still have to draw the line somewhere and there will be people either side of that line. There would be an extreme amount of difference between being in eternal hellfire and not being in eternal hellfire while there wouldn't be an extreme amount of difference between the people involved.

[thelionheart]

God will still have to draw the line somewhere and there will be people either side of that line. There would be an extreme amount of difference between being in eternal hellfire and not being in eternal hellfire while there wouldn't be an extreme amount of difference between the people involved.

The separation is not like that. There are people who are going to hell -according to Islam- and people who are going to heaven while others will go to hell and then to heaven. Some Muslims -including Mutazila- believe that there is a third place for people who don't belong in any place. So I fail to see this separation line.