On common ancestry.

[Portuguese Rebel]

I've decided to make this thread out of a question that has always been here in these boards. That is of the Theory of Evolution and people, that, for religious reasons choose to copy paste the same old info (that has been debunked over and over).

This thread i would like to keep limited on a single evidence i would like to see people that think that man has not evolved from another sort of primate along with chimps, gorillas and orangutans, try to find an answer to.

I would ask people to refrain from engaging in long parallel discussion as there are plenty of other threads for that. Lets limit ourselves here to this particular evidence as i'm very curious how this is explained in creationist point of view, since the technical part here is relatively simple for people with average intelligence to understand.

I could dig up the relevant articles but i've decided that peeps here probably prefer stuff in video with visual aids that make it easy for the non professional to follow. Here it goes:



So, is "god" just deceiving us on purpose, fusing two pairs of chromossomes together with their respective telomers just to make it appear as there is a common ancestor?

Because this data cannot simply be explained by saying that similar animals have a similar "design". This clearly shows a pre-existing structure that evolved into what is today. And this in a way that we actually can see repeated in abnormal cell divisions.

[Tuor]

Because this data cannot simply be explained by saying that similar animals have a similar "design".

I feel like I need to give you a heads up here: It can and it will be.

[Portuguese Rebel]

I feel like I need to give you a heads up here: It can and it will be.

It would be completely foolish. If a designer made those pair 2 chromosomes why would the telomers be included? Just to make it look like there was no designer at all?

[classical_hero]

It would be completely foolish. If a designer made those pair 2 chromosomes why would the telomers be included? Just to make it look like there was no designer at all?

So basically you are saying that because we share the same full stop, in genetic terms we share a common ancestor? I fail to see how this is against design, since lots of different creatures share the same ending, but other have different ending. I fail to see how this is an argument for your case.
Telomere#Telomere_sequences

But describing how such a complex code and the machinery to read the code has not been explained.

[Portuguese Rebel]

So basically you are saying that because we share the same full stop, in genetic terms we share a common ancestor? I fail to see how this is against design, since lots of different creatures share the same ending, but other have different ending. I fail to see how this is an argument for your case.
Telomere#Telomere_sequences

But describing how such a complex code and the machinery to read the code has not been explained.

Well, at least you tried... Now seriously, does someone who has understood the video and is a creationist care to comment on the evidence?

[Col. Tartleton]

I like that he says he's a Roman Catholic at the end as a you to protestant pseudo-scientists...

[Ancient Aliens]

I can tell you, from my immense experience on the subject, that this thread will prove fruitless.

[Blau&Gruen]

It's a nice argument although it requires some basic knowledge in Biology and Organic Chemistry to understand it.

[Sphere]

Missing links...

Micro evolution...

Banana's....

Watches...

747's

/thread

[Blau&Gruen]

"Bananas"

That reminds Koko, the gorilla having answered on the question whether people or gorillas were smarter, that gorillas were so while people were simply talking too much.

[thelionheart]

"Bananas"

wild bananas

[Tuor]

Missing links...

Micro evolution...

Banana's....

Watches...

747's

/thread

If this all of the above doesn't happen in this thread, I'm afraid that I will leave disappointed.

[Carpathian Wolf]

Why do you care?

[Blau&Gruen]

Why do you care?

Because ignorance is going to whip out the apes on top of the food chain first


Because ignorance produces wrong missleading concepts,


different wrong missleading concepts


Because wrong missleading concepts prevent from right decissions ...


... with negative effects


Because leaving ignorance behind can lead to new insights ...


... with possitive effects ...


... last but not least for the apes on the top of the food chain.

.... it is rational to care about evolution


We can be rational when we only dare to try.

[Carpathian Wolf]

Because ignorance is going to whip out the apes on top of the food chain first


Because ignorance produces wrong missleading concepts,


different wrong missleading concepts


Because wrong missleading concepts prevent from right decissions ...


... with negative effects


Because leaving ignorance behind can lead to new insights ...


... with possitive effects ...


... last but not least for the apes on the top of the food chain.

.... it is rational to care about evolution


We can be rational when we only dare to try.

No it doesn't. The problem with people thinking differently than you is simply that they think differently. You feel motivated to show your 'intellectual superiority' by making up all of these non sense unrelated consequences to not thinking like you.

[Blau&Gruen]

No it doesn't. The problem with people thinking differently than you is simply that they think differently. You feel motivated to show your 'intellectual superiority' by making up all of these non sense unrelated consequences to not thinking like you.

Lol, intellectual superiority! Let's not assume too much.

[basics]

" I've decided to make this thread out of a question that has always been here in these boards. That is of the Theory of Evolution and people, that, for religious reasons choose to copy paste the same old info (that has been debunked over and over).

This thread i would like to keep limited on a single evidence i would like to see people that think that man has not evolved from another sort of primate along with chimps, gorillas and orangutans, try to find an answer to."

Portugese Rebel,

I for one do believe that we were not an offshoot of any animal and you and all your scientific experts cannot prove that we were. There is no missing link, never has been and never will be except of course in the minds of men that continually seek one out only to be debunked by other scientific experts who are doing the same thing.

I remember not that long ago suggesting that God was faster than the speed of light for which came the answer that nothing is faster then the speed of light. And then for a second time science has discovered that there is. Isn't it amazing how man considers he has all the answers when in effect what he has discovered was already put there by God when He made all things in the six wonderful days of creation.

The single evidence is that according to each day in creation things were introduced as mature and not beginning. On the first day He created the heavens and the earth which was covered in water and all was black, no light until He declared that there be light, His light in such a way that there was morning and evening.

On the second day He took a certain amount of water to make up what we know as sky and cloud still with morning and evening working away. On the third day He raised up the land so that it was above the water levels them being absorbed into where the land had vacated whilst at the same time making vegetation appear on the land again not as little plants but mature ones, all according to their types.

On the fourth day God made artificial light as against His own light, in all the stars and our sun and moon so that seasons and time played their part on our planet even to the extent that its tilt was just right, meaning that without Him this planet had plan as well as form to continue when He withdrew. On the fifth day He made the creatures that make up our environment in water and air each again to its own type and they too were mature when it happened.

On the sixth day He made all the types that make land animals as well as man and woman and each was mature when He made them, meaning that in each of the days of making all that was made could be counted older than when we would expect. This has been man's problem all along. On the one hand he says that the evidence is of age so that creation must be wrong or that the universe is billions of years old because in the making it looks that way.

But God only had to say let it be and it was and what it was no way runs contrary to the evidence before us. Every possible necessity for life was given on our planet and we are still discovering much, much that has been under our noses all along. For a long time simple men knew of many of these things but the scientist didn't and many are returning as healing medicines as they were all along.

So when Portugese Rebel says all this was copied and pasted he beguiles you into believing that it has been debunked over and over. There are two types on this planet, them that know God and them that don't, isn't it funny that them that don't have more to say than them that do? So the blind are not really blind at all, aye that'll be the day.

[Blau&Gruen]

I for one do believe that we were not an offshoot of any animal ...

Correct, we are not an offshoot - we are an animal. We do not need to prove it. It's a matter of fact and we know it since we eat with bare fingers when we are hungry.

[Portuguese Rebel]

" I've decided to make this thread out of a question that has always been here in these boards. That is of the Theory of Evolution and people, that, for religious reasons choose to copy paste the same old info (that has been debunked over and over).

This thread i would like to keep limited on a single evidence i would like to see people that think that man has not evolved from another sort of primate along with chimps, gorillas and orangutans, try to find an answer to."

Portugese Rebel,

I for one do believe that we were not an offshoot of any animal and you and all your scientific experts cannot prove that we were. There is no missing link, never has been and never will be except of course in the minds of men that continually seek one out only to be debunked by other scientific experts who are doing the same thing.

I remember not that long ago suggesting that God was faster than the speed of light for which came the answer that nothing is faster then the speed of light. And then for a second time science has discovered that there is. Isn't it amazing how man considers he has all the answers when in effect what he has discovered was already put there by God when He made all things in the six wonderful days of creation.

The single evidence is that according to each day in creation things were introduced as mature and not beginning. On the first day He created the heavens and the earth which was covered in water and all was black, no light until He declared that there be light, His light in such a way that there was morning and evening.

On the second day He took a certain amount of water to make up what we know as sky and cloud still with morning and evening working away. On the third day He raised up the land so that it was above the water levels them being absorbed into where the land had vacated whilst at the same time making vegetation appear on the land again not as little plants but mature ones, all according to their types.

On the fourth day God made artificial light as against His own light, in all the stars and our sun and moon so that seasons and time played their part on our planet even to the extent that its tilt was just right, meaning that without Him this planet had plan as well as form to continue when He withdrew. On the fifth day He made the creatures that make up our environment in water and air each again to its own type and they too were mature when it happened.

On the sixth day He made all the types that make land animals as well as man and woman and each was mature when He made them, meaning that in each of the days of making all that was made could be counted older than when we would expect. This has been man's problem all along. On the one hand he says that the evidence is of age so that creation must be wrong or that the universe is billions of years old because in the making it looks that way.

But God only had to say let it be and it was and what it was no way runs contrary to the evidence before us. Every possible necessity for life was given on our planet and we are still discovering much, much that has been under our noses all along. For a long time simple men knew of many of these things but the scientist didn't and many are returning as healing medicines as they were all along.

So when Portugese Rebel says all this was copied and pasted he beguiles you into believing that it has been debunked over and over. There are two types on this planet, them that know God and them that don't, isn't it funny that them that don't have more to say than them that do? So the blind are not really blind at all, aye that'll be the day.

Thank you for your contribution and insight, but like i said, i'm interested in the discussion of this particular evidence for common ancestry between man and other big apes. Let's not get distracted ok? Plenty of other threads for a wider discussion of our beliefs and disbeliefs.

[Copperknickers II]

Portugese Rebel,

I for one do believe that we were not an offshoot of any animal and you and all your scientific experts cannot prove that we were. There is no missing link, never has been and never will be except of course in the minds of men that continually seek one out only to be debunked by other scientific experts who are doing the same thing.

There is no missing link. There is almost a complete chain of species from monkeys to us. But then again if we had specimens of a chain of every single individual from amoebae to humans you still wouldn't believe it.

I remember not that long ago suggesting that God was faster than the speed of light for which came the answer that nothing is faster then the speed of light. And then for a second time science has discovered that there is.

You are incorrect. Einstein never said nothing was faster than the speed of light, he merely said it was impossible to provide the amount of energy needed to accelerate matter to the speed of light from standing. Neutrinos are an entirely different matter.

The single evidence is that according to each day in creation things were introduced as mature and not beginning.

We're talking about scientific evidence not scriptures. If you don't have any, then you can only admit that you are wrong, according to science. If science turns out to be wrong then we will admit you are right, but until then your belief is illogical, backward and ignorant. The fact is there is nothing yet that has come up that shows that the scientific method itself is flawed. Yes, we have had to revise things, but that's because we're uncovering more evidence all the time. It's written into the scientific method itself that it can and indeed must be revised when new evidence comes to light: that is what gives it its strength.

There are two types on this planet, them that know God and them that don't, isn't it funny that them that don't have more to say than them that do?

I'm sorry? There are as many vocal theists as atheists, and both are miniscule minorities compared to agnostics and atheists who simply don't care.