Epeirus Opening moves

[Robert Guiscard]

First of all, fantastic mod, one of the best I've seen so far
I'm playing as Epeirus and after taking Pella I don't know what to do. Should I continue trying to conquer Makedon, protect Taras, or head north into Illyria and Dacia? Also, at what point in my conquests should my economy pick up again (because I always end up 30000+ in debt)? Thanks!

[hamjam]

Epirus is my favorite faction to play.

Here's what I have found works the best (and it seems to have the classical Pyrrhic flightiness).

Take Pella using just the force Pyrrhus. Then, take the secondary stack and attack Demetrius, but then combine the bulk of Pyrrhus's army with the Demetrius siege. Since you have elephants you can sack it immediately. So, in the first turn you can take both Pella and Demetrius.

From there make peace with Makedonia, and then let them and the Greeks fight it out for the next decade or so.

Meanwhile, get your army together and go after Rome. Basically, beat them into submission, consolidate Magna Graecia, and then go after Illyria. By the time you make it back to your capital, it will probably be time to mop up the remains of your old opponents in Attika and the Peloponnese.

As long as you disband 2 of your 3 ships on the first turn and take Pella and Demetrius, your money troubles should alleviate themselves within 3 or 4 turns.

[lummoxybez]

I agree that Pella and Demetrias can be taken in the first turn.

However, I also disband all ships (in Ambrakia) and all units/buildings in Taras, leaving it for Rome to
take. Then I make peace with Rome, Seleucids and Carthage, whilst pressing the rest of mainland Greece, taking Athens on the 3rd turn. Once all of Greece has been taken, make peace with Macedon and KH and rebuild your economy. One of the biggest cash-sinks are your expensive fleet and super-expensive elephants, so don't worry if they get taken down in a battle.

One thing I always do (playing on VH/M) is to ask for some cash when making peace. Rome wil give up to 7K for peace once they have taken Taras. This cash allows me to build up each city I have taken once they have been brought into th Epirote fold.

I also just occupy any Greek/Illyrian cities I take as they are kinsmen so to speak. However, Corinth tends to get enslaved as it has a high population and I generally make up some pretext that they insulted my family or something.

In addition, I tend to leave Pyrrhus in Pella (converting it to my capital) whilst young Ptolemy conquers the rest of Greece. He usually ends up a 7 or 8-star general by the time he has finished.

Then you can turn your attentions both east and west for expansion.

[Robert Guiscard]

Should I let the Macedonians and Greeks fight it out for a bit after taking Demetrius, taking Thermon while waiting and bilding my power, and then swooping down on the weakened factions later?

[Rhomphaiaphoros]

Should I let the Macedonians and Greeks fight it out for a bit after taking Demetrius, taking Thermon while waiting and bilding my power, and then swooping down on the weakened factions later?

Yes, that is a good idea (leaving them to fight eachother), except for the part about taking Thermon. I advise you to leave that settlement untouched, because it provides you a good buffer zone between Ambrakia and your southern enemies. This way, you can leave Ambrakia practically without a garrison, and all of your troops are available for guarding Demetrias and/or invading Illyrian or Thracian settlements.

While I very much agree with the previous replies, I also felt bringing a few additional points into this thread:

1) Taras can be defended against the Romans. Myself, I've never allowed the Romans to capture it. I agree that defending that settlement can be tricky at first, but once you get rid of the initial Roman army positioned near, repulsing further attacks is actually fairly easy. Hoplitai Haploi suffice for dealing with smaller Roman armies, and you should have enough time to upgrade your MIC before the Romans start sending bigger stacks at you. You get access to Phalangitai Deuteroi, Peltastai, and Sphendonetai from level 2 MIC; add 2 or 3 units of each to your Hoplitai Haploi army, and Taras is safe for some time. Later, when you have the time and money, upgrade your MIC(s) further and recruit yourself some Thureophoroi/Hoplitai, and/or hire mercenaries like Samnite Heavy Infantry. With troops like these added to your already sturdy defensive army, you can take down anything the Romans send against you, even the excessive Pedites Extraordinarii spam the AI Romani seem to love so dearly.

2) Sacking/Exterminating is never a good option when taking Pella and Demetrias (or indeed any Greek/Macedonian/Illyrian settlement), because Epeiros suffers from a population problem in its homelands in the beginning of the campaign. By just occupying those settlements, you get access to a fair amount of manpower which can be used to recruit almost any of your factional troops (and a few unique ones to boot).

3) Illyrian and Thracian provinces are important. Both give you access to units that are not only powerful, but cost-effective too. Illyrioi Paraktioi can be especially valuable in the early stages of the campaign, as they are recruitable straight from the level 1 regional MIC.

4) Even though it was already mentioned, I'll repeat it: the elephants eat quite a lot of money, and if they don't get killed during your initial conquests, they really should be disbanded quickly.

- Rhomphaiaphoros

[Robert Guiscard]

If I don't sack those two settlements, will my economy still recover, just more slowly?
and how many Hoplitai Haploi do you recommend to recruit in Taras the first turn?

[Rhomphaiaphoros]

If I don't sack those two settlements, will my economy still recover, just more slowly?

Oh yes it will, and just like you said, only a bit more slowly. Also, this is why disbanding the elephants is important, to get your economy balanced much faster.

and how many Hoplitai Haploi do you recommend to recruit in Taras the first turn?

At least two, perhaps even three units. Also, you can use your starting fleet to transport one of your Generals (along with some troops if you like) into Taras, before disbanding said fleet.

Early conquest of Romans sucks because it means half of the factions on the map won't ever get their reforms (they are tied to Rome building huge cities).

I agree with you on that. However, keeping Taras doesn't equal conquering the Roman lands in the early game. Myself, I always hold Taras, but never attack the Romans from there until late game. And the Romans are still usually able to trigger the Marian reforms.

But as you said, if one wishes to face fully reformed, more powerful Romans and/or other factions, abandoning Taras might also be a good move (one that I myself have never tested, though).

- Rhomphaiaphoros

[delra]

Early conquest of Romans sucks because it means half of the factions on the map won't ever get their reforms (they are tied to Rome building huge cities). My advice, burn down and abandon Taras - and move to Sicily and Greece for the next 40 years. Then take on Romans after they have reformed the world.

Don't be a douche to Baktria, they need their late bodyguards!

[delra]

In general, regardless of what I am, I never rush Romans. Guess I played Baktria and Koinon so much and so I like the reformed units enough to want them to appear in all campaigns.

[TWWolfe]

I have to disagree with people saying you need to disband your elephants. Why?

They are your trump card. You're facing enemies who have the same type of troops you do, but have more of them and better quality. Your elephants help to even the playing field, and by the time to no longer need them, you usually have an economy robust enough to support keeping them on.

[delra]

Yep, elephants are like tanks on the battlefield. Simple keeping them behind your line scares enemy making him run sooner. And as far as flanking goes, they can break enemy infantry formations faster than Thracian swords. Best of all, they knock down walls and gates in all the wooden cities so you can assault right away - just chase enemy back using own archers and slingers (need BI/Alex for AI to withdraw from fire btw). They are awesome and they are one unit worth going bankrupt over.

[Spike]

suggestions :
1) exterminate pella, destroy aigai
2) go to korinthos, exterminate, destroy the Zeus statue
3) go to athens, destroy acropolis

your monetary problem = solved

[mamik_yev_konak]

http://europabarbarorum.wikia.com/wiki/Epeiros#Campaign

[Robert Guiscard]

Thanks for the advice! In my current campaign, I hold all my starting cities, Dalmion, Pella, Demetrius, Athens, and the town directly north of Pella (forget the name) and I'm making 8000 mnai a turn