Trade moderation

[jakev2]

We always said that there would not be a set limit on trade in this game, but any trade deemed impractical would be stopped. We need to start looking at some of the trade in this game. Imperium Scotiae is trading with both Iberian nations - does that sound realistic for the medieval period? They are in pretty much the furthest away part of Russia, and don't even have access to the Baltic.

That was just an example, I'm sure there are other trades which are equally ridiculous.

[jakev2]

I would also suggest that trade income should not be able to exceed 20% of tax income.

[Dark Storm]

That would mean i basically could have no trade, my men are scottish anyway, they can brave the roughest seas

[jakev2]

"Basically no trade?" You would still make 1.5 million (1.4 million if the 20% cap is enforced), which is a hell of a lot more than most nations.

[Dark Storm]

Anyway, i have islands in Orkney, i can trade from there

[jakev2]

Yes, I'm sur with the 50 people there you will have a great trade hub.

[Dark Storm]

No, i use them to stockpile, my trade goods, and then from there i ship them to other nations

[jakev2]

nonetheless, the issue is not nescessarily with who can tradw with who, but the amount certain nations make from trade.

[Xion]

So I can't restart the Nabudis-Sub-Sahara Africa elephant trade if I somehow get back Libya?

[Dark Storm]

And that rule about 20% tax income is really quite evil to those with small populations, whose only chance of a big army is through trade

[jakev2]

And that rule about 20% tax income is really quite evil to those with small populations, whose only chance of a big army is through trade

Alright, how about 1 million or 20% of tax, whichever is largest.

TBH, WR has always had minor and major nations, I think the over-balanced approach this game is heading towards will lead to an awful lot of stalemate situations.

Playing a minor nation was actually really fun - it was more about securing strong alliances with larger nations with similar values and RPing well than conquering everything. This time I wanted to be a reasonably large nation, then loads of people with masssive land claims and overinflated populations came along

Now I am sad.

[Dark Storm]

However, look at those with the big populations, me for example, have you seen the size of the Russian armies surrounding me? whereas look at the forces surrounding the smaller nations, that's why theres a difference. Anyway limiting trade would make it less fun and unrealistic, (more so than it already is)

[jakev2]

Less realistic? You trade with Iberia! Whether or not you have the Orkneys, it is still stupid.

Yes, the Russian nations around you are big, but you have a large trade income regardless of whether or not there is a limit and that would easily give you the advantage over them, as NPC's can't trade.

[Dark Storm]

Yes i trade with Iberia, but i get paid on exports, i ship my things to the orkneys and they get by ship to places around the world, people who are trying to ship things to me, have to figure there own way about it. Also my alliance with england probably means my ships can stay for a bit in their ports, as i trade with them before continuing their journey to iberia and other nations

[jakev2]

Even Britannia was, in Medieval terms, a REALLY long way from that part of Russia, particularly with the seas you would have to face. Were it the Baltic you were trading through, there would be no problem, but again the main issue is the amount some nations make from trading.

[Agamemnon]

1. NPCs could trade...

2. I say that the best thing to avoid this and have the large and small thing would be to start some wars.

3. Dude, you do realise that 1 mil would mean each nation can have 2 agreements?

4. Honestly, I don't really see the problem. Yes, you can get a ton from trade. However, as I said before, the large pops make it necessary to do that.

5. I really think you would rather have the armies from the 600s game, where we all had armies of 500-2,000 men max.

[jakev2]

1. You said yourself that you would stop NPC trade

2. Alternatively, we could actually use realistic populations

3. Yes, 2 trade agreements at maximum capacity, but several ifytou don't go for the full 500,000

4. "a ton" from trade is a massive understatement. The scots make another 36% of their tax through trade. In all other WR's, trade was very much a small way of making a bit of extra money, and if a nation made like 15% of its tax it was considered a trading god, this is just over the top (and without any limit, the problem will only get worse)

5. I would certainly rather have more realistic armies rather than 150,000 well trained, full time soldiers for every big nation.

[Dark Storm]

I'm making trade with nations, because

a) i've gone there and they've given it me
b) they've come to me and i've given it

Your making it out like i'm forcing them to trade with me, however they all have an option, and look at it this way, for every trade i have, i make sure for the most part i'm trading 5 items for 5 we both get the same out of it, it's just my nation doesn't care about what religion you are, it'll trade with you no matter what. Also if my settlers could make it in boats to Russia 500 years before this, surely they are able to make the same trip again now.

[jakev2]

That's a trip they made to save their peoples, not trade, and as you say they made that trip once, not continuouslt back and forth.

But again, the point is not who you are trading with, but the amount made from trade.

[Xion]

Here's what I am doing with trade :
Presumption : Merchant ships may have to stop in other ports before their destination, and would take the chance to sell some goods while there. That, and there would be some piracy, regardless of military patrols in the ocean as the ships can not be everywhere at once.

-Koln(Importing Lumber, Exporting Copper) : 100,000 (Recieve 80% of this)
Crusader States (Exporting Sculptures, Arms & Armor, Art- Importing Silk and Sugar (Recieve 50% of this due to ships stopping probably in the Aegean or Italy/Pirates
Scandinavia (Exporting Wine, Importing Silver)- 80% of this
Imperium Scotae : 300,000 (Exporting Wine, crafted goods, spices) 10-20% of income recieved due to stopping several times, pirates, and probably some other reasons.

At least I think this works..