Is it just me or mtw2 units are retarded compared to RTW

[The Despondent Mind]

I started playing some RTW mods recently ( remembering good times )
And i noticed how skirmishers actually menage to evade other infantry,How actually an infantry charging unit charges on the enemy ( In mtw2 they run then they stop and then attack ) . Oh and i can finally DEPLOY units in DEPLOYMENT PHASE during siege defense (In Kingdoms it's almost impossible ).In most of RTW mods cavalry has a punch while in mtw2
Then there's the archers thing sometimes some of them just don't want to shoot in mtw2 .

This guy explains it all

1. I understand what you are saying. And for everyone to know, he isn't playing the game wrong. As some of you said, skirmish mode wishes it was as smart as a rock. One man gets attacked, they all stop and turn around to help out (it does this even without skirmish mode on), so you lose more men. Skirmish mode also is a procrastinator and waits to the VERY LAST SECOND before trying to run, and sometimes your men won't get away even though they should.

2. What you are talking about is when you send your men running towards the enemy and then BAM! The bulk of the unit all stops at about 50 yards away while the few men in the front of the unit don't get the message or something, keep going, and attack the enemy (and so get slaughtered). I have seen this a lot. When this happens, I order my men to run towards an area BEHIND their target so they rush forward into the enemy unit and get in the fight. You will lose some men, but it is better than them being stupid this way. Make sure that once they are in the fight to order them to attack the enemy or they will keep trying to run past their foes.

3. I have noticed this problem in Kingdoms deployment phase as well. The stupid computer gets so picky and annoying you want to go out and kill all the fluffy kittens in your neighborhood. What happens is when you try to deploy your units in a clearly open space, you try to set them there, and they ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO MOVE THERE. If you tell them to move there in the battle, they will move there with no problem, but won't in deployment. Just set them as close as you can to where you need them and then move them as soon as the battle begins. Avoid the urge to kill the fluffy kittens and/or your computer from frustration.

4. As for cavalry, I find you usually only get good results from a cavalry charge in the enemies' flank (once they are no longer using basic units that don't have very good defense). Of course, in Kingdoms, stupidity ran rampant throughout CA while working on the supposed problem of cavalry being overpowered. Instead of being smart and making cavalry more expensive and increasing the stats of spearmen so they can better fight cavalry, they increase spearmen stats, lower many heavy infantry stats (armoured sergeants have the same defense as DFKs? WTH?), lower cavalry stats AND take away cavalry's good stamina. I threw darts at a picture of CA for a month.

5. Yep, I have seen the archer problem too. I think that has mainly happened in Kingdoms, though. The problem isn't that they are out of range but that they are going on strike for some apparent reason (perhaps because upkeep gives them 1 florin a turn? Kind of hard to live off of). I think I was able to correct this by moving the archers somewhere else. I haven't seen any group of people so picky since that time I cloned my brother... where the mass grave for those clones is I will never tell.

[In3x]

Cavalry is fine in this game. In RTW cavalry was unrealistic because it could turn on the spot at full gallop and it's acceleration could get it to full speed in about half a second. Units were unrealistically mobile in RTW. I have never really had problems deploying units in siege defence. As for archers, well, I've never had the problem you describe but I will point out that they no longer shoot your own troops in the back when they are firing from behind your infantry lines. You are right about the skirmishers however, those guys can't evade anything to save their lives.

[MeMongo]

Only time I am unable to deploy units in a siege defense is when an enemy spy infiltrates my gates, otherwise it lets me everytime?

[Double A]

Skirmish mode was bugged to hell in both games, mods might have fixed it.

No they don't.

You can never deploy units if you're besieging the enemy and they attack you. It's called a sally.

In RTW, you just double click and whatever your cavalry charges will die (if it's from the flank of course). In M2, they get staggered sometimes, and it's good to reform them if so. You could just be using them wrong. Besides, now heavy cavalry can charge militia spearmen dead on without losing too many guys, but in Rome, they'd have gotten butchered.

Maybe you turned autofire off and didn't tell them to attack, because to my knowledge, archers always fire. Crossbowmen are sometimes buggy on walls. Gunmen hardly ever shoot on walls and are a to set up correctly anywhere that isn't completely flat. Guns ≠ archers.

[rancho_26]

Skirmish mode can be annoying as hell in both games. Even if one archer gets attacked by a pursuing unit, the rest will stop. "No man left behind" I guess. I have the Roma Surrectum 2 mod for RTW and Stainless Steel 6.4 for M2TW skirmish mode doesn't seem to have a difference. I rarely use skirmish mode anymore, I just micro manage.

I do agree with Double A, units in RTW move unrealistically.

[Sulfurion Blackfyre]

I started playing some RTW mods recently ( remembering good times )
And i noticed how skirmishers actually menage to evade other infantry,How actually an infantry charging unit charges on the enemy ( In mtw2 they run then they stop and then attack ) . Oh and i can finally DEPLOY units in DEPLOYMENT PHASE during siege defense (In Kingdoms it's almost impossible ).In most of RTW mods cavalry has a punch while in mtw2
Then there's the archers thing sometimes some of them just don't want to shoot in mtw2 .

Then you're somehow playing MTW2 wrong because in my game:
- Skirmishers work, in fact, they are Portugal/Spain's major infantry units, you can pretty much slaughter enemy infantry with them, especially if you're defending (let them come, pepper them with javelins, killing lots, and then engage in melee, routing them quickly)

- Infantry charges when you tell them to attack from enough distance, and they cause quite a lot of casualties and decline in enemy's morale.

- Almost impossible? Sure there are some places that don't allow you to properly put units there, but it's so damned easy to defend a city in MTW2, you only need to put all your units in a select area and that's it.

- A cavalry charge is actually devastating against pretty much any unit, if properly made (can take out like 30% of the unit and half of the morale) while loosing just 2 or 3 riders.

So, yeah, learn to play

[Shamefur Dispray]

the real problem for me is units backing away/spreading out during a fight losing cohesion and ending up in horde formation from RTW

[Nosjack]

the real problem for me is units backing away/spreading out during a fight losing cohesion and ending up in horde formation from RTW

Guard mode fixed this 99% of the time for me, even more so when using spearmen in defense.

[Teutonic Warlord]

I started playing some RTW mods recently ( remembering good times )
And i noticed how skirmishers actually menage to evade other infantry,How actually an infantry charging unit charges on the enemy ( In mtw2 they run then they stop and then attack ) . Oh and i can finally DEPLOY units in DEPLOYMENT PHASE during siege defense (In Kingdoms it's almost impossible ).In most of RTW mods cavalry has a punch while in mtw2
Then there's the archers thing sometimes some of them just don't want to shoot in mtw2 .

1. I understand what you are saying. And for everyone to know, he isn't playing the game wrong. As some of you said, skirmish mode wishes it was as smart as a rock. One man gets attacked, they all stop and turn around to help out (it does this even without skirmish mode on), so you lose more men. Skirmish mode also is a procrastinator and waits to the VERY LAST SECOND before trying to run, and sometimes your men won't get away even though they should.

2. What you are talking about is when you send your men running towards the enemy and then BAM! The bulk of the unit all stops at about 50 yards away while the few men in the front of the unit don't get the message or something, keep going, and attack the enemy (and so get slaughtered). I have seen this a lot. When this happens, I order my men to run towards an area BEHIND their target so they rush forward into the enemy unit and get in the fight. You will lose some men, but it is better than them being stupid this way. Make sure that once they are in the fight to order them to attack the enemy or they will keep trying to run past their foes.

3. I have noticed this problem in Kingdoms deployment phase as well. The stupid computer gets so picky and annoying you want to go out and kill all the fluffy kittens in your neighborhood. What happens is when you try to deploy your units in a clearly open space, you try to set them there, and they ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO MOVE THERE. If you tell them to move there in the battle, they will move there with no problem, but won't in deployment. Just set them as close as you can to where you need them and then move them as soon as the battle begins. Avoid the urge to kill the fluffy kittens and/or your computer from frustration.

4. As for cavalry, I find you usually only get good results from a cavalry charge in the enemies' flank (once they are no longer using basic units that don't have very good defense). Of course, in Kingdoms, stupidity ran rampant throughout CA while working on the supposed problem of cavalry being overpowered. Instead of being smart and making cavalry more expensive and increasing the stats of spearmen so they can better fight cavalry, they increase spearmen stats, lower many heavy infantry stats (armoured sergeants have the same defense as DFKs? WTH?), lower cavalry stats AND take away cavalry's good stamina. I threw darts at a picture of CA for a month.

5. Yep, I have seen the archer problem too. I think that has mainly happened in Kingdoms, though. The problem isn't that they are out of range but that they are going on strike for some apparent reason (perhaps because upkeep gives them 1 florin a turn? Kind of hard to live off of). I think I was able to correct this by moving the archers somewhere else. I haven't seen any group of people so picky since that time I cloned my brother... where the mass grave for those clones is I will never tell.

[The Despondent Mind]

Then you're somehow playing MTW2 wrong because in my game:
- Skirmishers work, in fact, they are Portugal/Spain's major infantry units, you can pretty much slaughter enemy infantry with them, especially if you're defending (let them come, pepper them with javelins, killing lots, and then engage in melee, routing them quickly)

- Infantry charges when you tell them to attack from enough distance, and they cause quite a lot of casualties and decline in enemy's morale.

- Almost impossible? Sure there are some places that don't allow you to properly put units there, but it's so damned easy to defend a city in MTW2, you only need to put all your units in a select area and that's it.

- A cavalry charge is actually devastating against pretty much any unit, if properly made (can take out like 30% of the unit and half of the morale) while loosing just 2 or 3 riders.

So, yeah, learn to play

I'm really not sure we play the same game . And dude I am a noob but i know how to double click on a unit .

1. I understand what you are saying. And for everyone to know, he isn't playing the game wrong. As some of you said, skirmish mode wishes it was as smart as a rock. One man gets attacked, they all stop and turn around to help out (it does this even without skirmish mode on), so you lose more men. Skirmish mode also is a procrastinator and waits to the VERY LAST SECOND before trying to run, and sometimes your men won't get away even though they should.

2. What you are talking about is when you send your men running towards the enemy and then BAM! The bulk of the unit all stops at about 50 yards away while the few men in the front of the unit don't get the message or something, keep going, and attack the enemy (and so get slaughtered). I have seen this a lot. When this happens, I order my men to run towards an area BEHIND their target so they rush forward into the enemy unit and get in the fight. You will lose some men, but it is better than them being stupid this way. Make sure that once they are in the fight to order them to attack the enemy or they will keep trying to run past their foes.

3. I have noticed this problem in Kingdoms deployment phase as well. The stupid computer gets so picky and annoying you want to go out and kill all the fluffy kittens in your neighborhood. What happens is when you try to deploy your units in a clearly open space, you try to set them there, and they ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO MOVE THERE. If you tell them to move there in the battle, they will move there with no problem, but won't in deployment. Just set them as close as you can to where you need them and then move them as soon as the battle begins. Avoid the urge to kill the fluffy kittens and/or your computer from frustration.

4. As for cavalry, I find you usually only get good results from a cavalry charge in the enemies' flank (once they are no longer using basic units that don't have very good defense). Of course, in Kingdoms, stupidity ran rampant throughout CA while working on the supposed problem of cavalry being overpowered. Instead of being smart and making cavalry more expensive and increasing the stats of spearmen so they can better fight cavalry, they increase spearmen stats, lower many heavy infantry stats (armoured sergeants have the same defense as DFKs? WTH?), lower cavalry stats AND take away cavalry's good stamina. I threw darts at a picture of CA for a month.

5. Yep, I have seen the archer problem too. I think that has mainly happened in Kingdoms, though. The problem isn't that they are out of range but that they are going on strike for some apparent reason (perhaps because upkeep gives them 1 florin a turn? Kind of hard to live off of). I think I was able to correct this by moving the archers somewhere else. I haven't seen any group of people so picky since that time I cloned my brother... where the mass grave for those clones is I will never tell.

Ok you wrote everything exactly i would if I wasn't lazy

The deployment phase in Kingdoms is the most annoying thing i ever exp in TW games , I have to start the battle to put my units properly and still there is some retardation with path finding .

[Teutonic Warlord]

I'm really not sure we play the same game . And dude I am a noob but i know how to double click on a unit .


Ok you wrote everything exactly i would if I wasn't lazy

The deployment phase in Kingdoms is the most annoying thing i ever exp in TW games , I have to start the battle to put my units properly and still there is some retardation with path finding .

I wasn't just explaining. I was also giving you my ways to deal with the problems while trying to provide humor. Move archers when they refuse to fire, use cavalry to flank, tell the units that don't charge right to run some place behind their target, and so on. The only one I didn't give my solution to was skirmishing- you will just have to micromanage with that. Hoped it helped. If not, well.....

Maybe watching this will make you feel better.

[gaiusjulii]

The deployment phase in Kingdoms is the most annoying thing i ever exp in TW games , I have to start the battle to put my units properly and still there is some retardation with path finding .

its not just kingdoms I am playing MTW2 Patch 1.2 and the deployment in towns absolutletly sucks I cant get my troops where i want them to go so now i have to bundle all my troops in a horde and then run them to position after the battle starts DUMB! I am looking for my RTW disk as soon as possible MTW2 sucks

[Kabeloko]

i dont have any of the problems described above, and skirmish mode is only useless on foot archers and javelinmen, but i have no problem manually retreating them; on cav they work great for me, never get charged, so i just forget about them...
perhaps its the mods im playing...

[The Despondent Mind]

i dont have any of the problems described above, and skirmish mode is only useless on foot archers and javelinmen, but i have no problem manually retreating them; on cav they work great for me, never get charged, so i just forget about them...
perhaps its the mods im playing...

Well dude that's the problem i don't want to manually retreat every FOOT skirmisher unit .
I play a lot of mods , i barely played vanilla .

[Kabeloko]

Well dude that's the problem i don't want to manually retreat every FOOT skirmisher unit .
I play a lot of mods , i barely played vanilla .

then just put them behind ur main line...
in SS for example, they are able to shoot over heads even with no angle, even musketeers XD
i remember a particular battle where i could only spam lusitanian javelinmen as portugal(tough start), made a line of militia units and let them trhow hell at enemy line, won even outnumbered...

[Nazgûl Killer]

First and foremost, the main complaint that irritated my eyes: Your archers stop firing sometimes, granted, that is because they find that the risk of hitting your allies is too great or their path was obstructed by allied units, hence they decided not to fire. Had they fired, you'd be complaining that archers kill your own troops way too often. Can't win them all, now can you?

To fix this, you simply select your archers and make them attack the unit farthest away from your troops, they should fire again, if not, their path is simply obstructed.

As for the rest of the complaints, it happens often to me as well that in the deployment phase units refuse to go to a certain spot because the formation simply doesn't fit there completely. There is a general requirement in the deployment phase that the men cannot be dynamic and must fit in a spot to the very inch of their formation, as such try rotating, changing, broadening and thinning the formation before making them move there, or simply move there after the deployment phase. It's a problem that exists because no game is perfect and no human is perfect, they just set the soldiers' formation to not be as dynamic as it is in the battle itself.

The part about the men running toward the enemy and half of them stopping was fixed in Kingdoms, the bug no longer happens. Or shouldn't, anyway.

As for Skirmish mode, it works for me quite nicely to be honest, but sometimes it does screw up - But consider this, if your enemy would use skirmish mode and it would work so 100% perfectly, he would just run you about the map with you having no chance of defeating him, it's called balancing issues. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Be smart about it and micromanage your troops to the very core and make them run yourself instead of relying on skirmish and you should be fine.
That aside, the part about one guy being attacked so his allies try to help him... What do you expect? Seriously, what do you expect? If I any soldier would see one of his friends get attacked, he would, without a doubt, attack the assailants with the fury that not even a volcano can match, I seriously don't see the problem with this. Think of it logically from a human perspective, if your brother in arms, the fella that saved your behind the battle before, the fella who swam in blood with you the battle before as you both butchered dozens and dozens of enemies, the guy you cry to at night because you can't stand to see the faces of your enemies haunting your dreams anymore, comes under attack. Wouldn't you give your life away just to help him?

And no, I'm not exaggerating. These things happened in modern wars, so it's not hard to imagine what happened in medieval warfare, where you had to kill your enemy up close and personal. I know this is just a game, but try to think of it less of it as a game and try to think of what you would have done. As a combat soldier I can tell you that I will not only give my life away to save that man, I would literally turn the world upside down while tearing up the ground itself, ripping it open for it to swallow my enemies to save him. Think of it from a soldier's perspective.

And last but not least - Cavalry not carrying a punch? What? If you say that you're using them wrong. Heavy cavalry are not invincible, in fact, when facing head on with spearmen or other cavalry you can expect 50% casualties which is incredibly realistic. If you would charge from the rear, the flanks or have 2 cavalry units smash one enemy unit from both flanks, you will see how effective they really are. You can't just throw them into the fray and scream at your computer because they under-perform. Use them wisely.

Wisely how?
Have your light infantry pin down a heavy infantry unit and bring your general to its rear, charge at that unit while another general charges at the flank, this will cause them to flee in one direction as to avoid the "Fighting to the death" part which will only breed devastation, while destroying more than 80% of their troops - Guaranteed.
Tactics should be used, and often. Sending massive armies at one another is a sure way to lose or get such high casualties that you will never recover from in time.

[ARCHIBALD]

And last but not least - Cavalry not carrying a punch? What? If you say that you're using them wrong. Heavy cavalry are not invincible, in fact, when facing head on with spearmen or other cavalry you can expect 50% casualties which is incredibly realistic. If you would charge from the rear, the flanks or have 2 cavalry units smash one enemy unit from both flanks, you will see how effective they really are. You can't just throw them into the fray and scream at your computer because they under-perform. Use them wisely.

Horses won't charge a solid line of men/spears period, no one can make them do that

[fredtrotter]

Horses won't charge a solid line of men/spears period, no one can make them do that

There has already been a very lengthy argument over this. For the betterment of mankind, let's not start another one

[Double A]

There has already been a very lengthy argument over this. For the betterment of mankind, let's not start another one

It's less of an argument and more of a group of people who don't know what they're talking about yelling at others who do.

[The Despondent Mind]

As for the rest of the complaints, it happens often to me as well that in the deployment phase units refuse to go to a certain spot because the formation simply doesn't fit there completely. There is a general requirement in the deployment phase that the men cannot be dynamic and must fit in a spot to the very inch of their formation, as such try rotating, changing, broadening and thinning the formation before making them move there, or simply move there after the deployment phase. It's a problem that exists because no game is perfect and no human is perfect, they just set the soldiers' formation to not be as dynamic as it is in the battle itself.

It happens to often that I can't put a unit ANYWHERE . Which never happens in rtw .

The part about the men running toward the enemy and half of them stopping was fixed in Kingdoms, the bug no longer happens. Or shouldn't, anyway.

All of them stops then attacks .

And no, I'm not exaggerating. These things happened in modern wars, so it's not hard to imagine what happened in medieval warfare, where you had to kill your enemy up close and personal. I know this is just a game, but try to think of it less of it as a game and try to think of what you would have done. As a combat soldier I can tell you that I will not only give my life away to save that man, I would literally turn the world upside down while tearing up the ground itself, ripping it open for it to swallow my enemies to save him. Think of it from a soldier's perspective.

Professional solder is not the same as some javelin low life .

And last but not least - Cavalry not carrying a punch? What? If you say that you're using them wrong. Heavy cavalry are not invincible, in fact, when facing head on with spearmen or other cavalry you can expect 50% casualties which is incredibly realistic. If you would charge from the rear, the flanks or have 2 cavalry units smash one enemy unit from both flanks, you will see how effective they really are. You can't just throw them into the fray and scream at your computer because they under-perform. Use them wisely.

I rarely extremely rarely send them up front on unit . Almost always from behind.Now it could be mods weakening it .But still there is no " punch " when they hit ( and i really give them space to get the speed ) .