Rome Testudo?

**lromero95** · September 20, 2011, 01:22 PM

I was wondering if this was a bug or removed because the roman legionaries can't use the testudo formation. Awesome mod btw.

**Clearchus of Sparta** · September 20, 2011, 01:43 PM

It was removed as not historically accurate for this time frame - hope that helps

**Themea** · September 20, 2011, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Clearchus of Sparta

It was removed as not historically accurate for this time frame - hope that helps

So then the Cetls having seige towers is? That makes sense

**Heinz Guderian** · September 20, 2011, 03:20 PM

bit strange. My hastati can form testudo

**El_Saracen** · September 20, 2011, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian

bit strange. My hastati can form testudo

My hastati and principles can in custom battles but I don't use it.

I was wondering why they have the ability though. Anyone?

**Heinz Guderian** · September 20, 2011, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by El_Saracen

My hastati and principles can in custom battles but I don't use it.

I was wondering why they have the ability though. Anyone?

i can use it during my campaign battles. please dont tell me i have messed up my installation. I just managed to push the Epirotes out of Italy like after 30 years.

**Clearchus of Sparta** · September 21, 2011, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Themea

So then the Cetls having seige towers is? That makes sense

I would agree with you, but without more thought as to the implications for removing the option, it might be something the game requires in order to function. I dont know if its possible to restrict siege equipment by faction/culture. I have a feeling its all or nothing, but no harm looking into it.

**Themea** · September 21, 2011, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Clearchus of Sparta

I would agree with you, but without more thought as to the implications for removing the option, it might be something the game requires in order to function. I dont know if its possible to restrict siege equipment by faction/culture. I have a feeling its all or nothing, but no harm looking into it.

In vanilla BI two of the factions have limited siege equipment so I believe that it is possible

**lromero95** · September 20, 2011, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Clearchus of Sparta

It was removed as not historically accurate for this time frame - hope that helps

Oh alright thanks yeah just wanted to make sure

**AngryTitusPullo** · September 20, 2011, 10:09 PM

The OP probably mean RTR 6 or Platinum. Vanilla RTW which RTR 6 Gold were base have bugged testudo animation IIRC so it was taken out from the mod. Since RTR PE is direct port from RTR 6 Gold the testudo wasn't include either.

In RTR VII however the testudo are back in.

**Sphere** · September 20, 2011, 11:30 PM

In RTR VII however the testudo are back in.

Golden my friend,

ing golden.

**Heinz Guderian** · September 21, 2011, 07:06 AM

Spartan Tetsuo disapproves of your Roman testudo

**~~Tony83~~** · September 21, 2011, 08:51 AM

The Spartans don't need the testudo - they have sharp pointy sticks instead.

**Maurits** · September 21, 2011, 10:11 AM

I think we reintroduced it because there is evidence (pictures) that the Romans actually used it in a siege during the 2nd Punic War.

**Voice of Treason** · September 21, 2011, 11:42 AM

...I've actually seen the AI form Testudo twice now...
...The first time I was so impressed at the battle logic I took a screen...(I had everyone concentrating on singling out one unit to break Roman morale)...
...You've just got to pelt them.....a hell of a lot...(Pic I'm the guerilla units hiding over the ridge)

**bucellarii** · September 22, 2011, 07:23 AM

I think we reintroduced it because there is evidence (pictures) that the Romans actually used it in a siege during the 2nd Punic War

They use it in two ways: either they approach some fort to assault it, often even enabling men to scale the very walls, or sometimes, when they are surrounded by archers, they all crouch together.

Dio. 49.30.4

It is not possible to determine when the testudo formation was first used by the Roman army. The earliest recorded instance dates, I believe, to the storming of Aquilonia in 293 BCE.

When they all together cried out '' No ! " he himself led the way to the gate, shield over head, and the others, following him, formed a testudo, burst into the city, and hurling down the defenders seized the walls adjoining the gate

Liv. 10.41.14

Whilst the supposed military ignorance of Livy is well known (The Negligent Historian: 'Howlers' in Livy; P. G. Walsh, 1958), and the use of the testudo during the Third Samnite War may well be an anachronism, some recent scholarship has attempted to rehabilitate Livy’s reputation (Livy's Battle Descriptions and the Nature of Roman Mid-Republican Heavy Infantry Combat; Koon, 2007). Therefore it would be rash to simply disregard the possibility that by the start of the third century the testudo was already an established tactic during assaults against enemy settlements.

Whilst direct references to the testudo during the third and second centuries are not common there are a sufficient number to suggest that the army of the Roman Republic possessed the discipline and skill to routinely deploy this formation when required to do so. Witness the assault against a fixed enemy position in 200 BCE during the campaign against Philip V of Macedonia (Liv. 31.39.14-15).