ISLAM and its violent expansion

[dadman]

Genesis 16:9 Then the angel of the LORD told her (Hagar) .. "Go back to your mistress and submit to her” .. The angel added .. “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count” .. The angel of the LORD also said to her: .. “You are now pregnant and you will give birth to a son .. You shall name him Ishmael ( father of the Arabs ) .. for the LORD has heard of your misery ..
He will be a wild donkey of a man .. his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him .. and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers”

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Jesus-Muhammad.htm

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

And?

[Eofor]

Is is time for our monthly "Islam somehow makes people violent" thread?

[Diamat]

Woot! Woot! Another anti-Islam thread...

Mods, please close...

[dadman]

"Islam somehow makes people violent" . . . . gee .. I wonder why


Quran 2:191-193 = "And slay them wherever ye find them,
and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers] ..
and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
---------------------------
Quran 2:244 - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
---------------------------
Quran 2:216 - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it.
But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you (fighting) ..
and that ye love a thing which is bad for you (not fighting) But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
---------------------------
Quran 3:56 - "As to those who reject faith ( Islam )
I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
-------------------------
Quran 3:151 - "Soon shall We ( Allah via Muslims ) cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers ..
for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers ..
Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding ..
Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites'
and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Quran 4:74 - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other ..
Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter ..
These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah

No .. Mohammad is not the final prophet . . . . he is the founder and leader of a Satanic / legalistic death cult

[Diamat]

Have you ever read the bible?

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

"Islam somehow makes people violent" . . . . gee .. I wonder why


Quran 2:191-193 = "And slay them wherever ye find them,
and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers] ..
and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
---------------------------
Quran 2:244 - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
---------------------------
Quran 2:216 - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it.
But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you (fighting) ..
and that ye love a thing which is bad for you (not fighting) But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
---------------------------
Quran 3:56 - "As to those who reject faith ( Islam )
I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
-------------------------
Quran 3:151 - "Soon shall We ( Allah via Muslims ) cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers ..
for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers ..
Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding ..
Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites'
and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Quran 4:74 - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other ..
Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter ..
These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah

No .. Mohammad is not the final prophet . . . . he is the founder and leader of a Satanic / legalistic death cult

Wonderful. I'm sure I could quote tonnes of crazy things from the bible, 'proving' all kinds of nonsense.

[Eofor]

Unless you can scientifically prove that Mohammed is using mind-control sorcery from beyond the grave to make Muslims violent, all you're doing is posting quotes from a religious text out of context.

[Anarius]

Deuteronomy 3:

Then we turned, and went up the way to Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan came out against us, he and all his people, to battle at Edrei.

And the LORD said unto me, Fear him not: for I will deliver him, and all his people, and his land, into thy hand; and thou shalt do unto him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon.

So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining.

And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan.

All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many.

And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.

I think you'll be hard pressed to find anything in the Quran that tops this passage.

[chriscase]

In context, the Saracens of the Crusades era were remarkably civilized. They actually treated Jews and even Christians with what was, at the time, unusual civility. That is to say, they didn't massacre them with the sort of horrendous brutality that characterized the behavior of the Crusaders themselves.

Of course, that was back then. Nowadays, I'd hope we could do better. Not that we always do.

Does this even belong in the EMM? Seems like more of a Mudpit thread.

[Manco]

In context, the Saracens of the Crusades era were remarkably civilized. They actually treated Jews and even Christians with what was, at the time, unusual civility. That is to say, they didn't massacre them with the sort of horrendous brutality that characterized the behavior of the Crusaders themselves.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. There are plenty of examples on both sides of massacres and chivalric behaviour, an d very few of it was out of the ordinary for the time and both sides.
The Crusaders tend to get the short stick because of some very extreme circumstances during the First Crusade, events that have become so widely known and published exactly because Frankish scholars were themselves horrified by them.

Not that I deny the entire situation was horrible and barbaric, or even remotely support the OP

[Diamat]

Again and again I am left stunned by the sheer amount of bigotry people are capable of spurting.

These people prove nothing. They only reaffirm, to themselves, what they already believe. All they prove is their immaturity and lack of education. ~End rant~

[chriscase]

That's a bit of an exaggeration. There are plenty of examples on both sides of massacres and chivalric behaviour, and very few of it was out of the ordinary for the time and both sides.
The Crusaders tend to get the short stick because of some very extreme circumstances during the First Crusade, events that have become so widely known and published exactly because Frankish scholars were themselves horrified by them.

My impression of the Crusaders is that they were almost categorically barbaric, and essentially underwent a "civilization" process in contact with the Saracens - in terms of knowledge in medicine, botany, architecture, agriculture, literature and philosophy as well as codes of military conduct and diplomacy.

Of course everything I know about that period comes from Will Durant, so you may have something to teach me there. And I may well be misquoting Durant - it's been a while...

[Carpathian Wolf]

So how about discussing the initial Muslim expansion...? It didn't exactly reach from Spain to India because they were knocking on doors and handing out pamphlets. And these things were happening very close to the original conception of Islam where as things such as the crusades or witch burning or whatever, happened over a thousand years after Christianity started and by those practicing heretical versions of the faith. Secondly you talk about "well i can show things in the bible." The difference is these things happened in the OT and it is a recounting of something that already happened. Where as in the Quran you get commandments that can still be applied today and ARE being applied today by certain Muslims. Key differences I am surprised nobody is getting a hold of.

[Cooraan]

The site you quote is rather.....errr dumb.

[AngryTitusPullo]

So how about discussing the initial Muslim expansion...? It didn't exactly reach from Spain to India because they were knocking on doors and handing out pamphlets. And these things were happening very close to the original conception of Islam where as things such as the crusades or witch burning or whatever, happened over a thousand years after Christianity started and by those practicing heretical versions of the faith. Secondly you talk about "well i can show things in the bible." The difference is these things happened in the OT and it is a recounting of something that already happened. Where as in the Quran you get commandments that can still be applied today and ARE being applied today by certain Muslims. Key differences I am surprised nobody is getting a hold of.

The largest muslim community in the world today (South East Asia) is where not a single Arab soldier ever set foot.

[dadman]

Sorry . . . but Christians follow the New Covenant .. not the old

I think it's funny how Marxists/Communists .. Liberals .. Secularists ..
pagans and atheists are in bed with / minimumize and defend Islamic Jihadists . . .
I guess the saying is true .. the enemy of my enemy ( Christians ) is my friend

When Christopher Hitchens observes that, “Religion is violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism and tribalism and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children,” he is both right and wrong . . . Hitchens is right because humankind is sinful and selfish. Indeed, I believe it was G.K. Chesterton who said that the one Christian doctrine that was demonstrably provable, even to casual observers, was the sinfulness and depravity of man. Thus, human expressions of the religious impulse will inevitably produce some religious practices and beliefs that would fit Hitchens’ rather grim description .. Human history is replete with such flawed expressions of religious faith.
However, this would be true of all secular philosophies and ideologies as well. Three of the most heinous and barbaric ideologies, which produced the greatest cruelties and violations of humanity in the 20th century, were fascism, Nazism and communism —

all secular.

[Eofor]

Sorry . . . but Christians follow the New Covenant .. not the old

I think it's funny how Marxists/Communists .. Liberals .. Secularists ..
pagans and atheists are in bed with / minimumize and defend Islamic Jihadists . . .
I guess the saying is true .. the enemy of my enemy ( Christians ) is my friend

So when did anyone in this thread say that they hate Christians?

[Col. Tartleton]

If you're not a Mormon I'm not interested in your opinions...

Also Nazism and Stalinism were not Secular. They were the religions... Communism is an economic system. Fascism is just a variant of militant nationalism.

[Himster]

Aww, little boy is angry at brown people. How very retro.

Also lol at calling nazism and stalinism "secular".