Minor Nations

As has been recently commented on a closed thread, it's been quiet on here recently. So i thought i would try to ignite a discussion on the so-called minor nations ie. not GB, France or Prussia. Though even France seemed to go out of fashion for a while. For those of us who have stuck with the game rediscovering some of the less popular nations has given the game a new lease of life. Updates and changes in tactics mean the game has evolved a bit since it was first released. Lancers used to rule, no it's shooter cav. Most of us can remember how popular Russia was at the beginning, so much so that 'no uni' became a standard rule in the way that 'no art/max 5 lights' has become now. I thought i might give a thumbnail assessment of how i regard the strengths and weaknesses of each nation. Please chip in with your own ideas and opinions. I'm not the best player in the world so there is no doubt tons i have missed out on.

OTTOMANS
The major minor these days. Few players gave them the time of day when the game was first released. Now they are regarded as hugely powerful with the right build. Their melee capability is devastating. Using a screen of Bashi with some chevrons you can get up close and personal quickly and cause massive disruption to your opponents. They're cheap and deadly and one in melee they do serious damage. Ottoman line are decent enough pouring in the musket shot behind and Mounted Nizam are a very effective shooter cav. Add upgraded Cemat Janissaires and Silatar Guard Cav and the Ottomans have a powerful combination of units for a rush build. They are not for standing and shooting. Close in quickly and overwhelm your opponent. This is particularly effective as a flank build on 3v3, 4v4 etc and on terrain maps where you can advance through cover such as woodland. Plus they don't fatigue like the others on Pyramids and Syrian Ridge.

Note: popularity of shooter cav has been a major shift in the game over the last maybe 9 months. Chass a Cheval makes France the top dog in 1v1s on grassy. Their accuracy is better than stadard Frnach line. NUTS! When combined with an Old Guard flank rush and half your army can dissapear before you know it. Personally i think shooter cav is over powered but don't let that hold you back. This brings me to Sweden.

SWEDEN
In my opinion the other major minor. Again, most effective with the rush build. Swedish Jagers are nothing special; cripple by poor reload and so so morale and the Swedes have no regular lights. So don't use them. Swedish foot are decent enough but put them behind buffed militia along with a strong contingent of Foot Guards for a morale boost and decent fire power and thing change. Sweden's ace in the pack is Mounted Jagers with 40 accuracy and 40 reload they're as good as line infantry plus the whole unit can fire plus they can fire over the heads of your line. Massed shooter cav can cause huge damage very quickly when concentrated along side line. Flanking is so important in NTW. Defensive players are missing a treat. Hitting a flank hard with Mounted Jagers can cause massive disruption and overwhelm an opponent.

Note: If you wanna win FLANK! Sitting still and letting your opponent come to you surrenders the battle to him. He can then dictate how the battle goes. Sure put down stakes and wait there if you like, but a good player will just walk around you. Hitting a unit from the front and sides gets you quick kills and causes units to rout. It works! If you don't believe me try it. This game suits the aggressive player and you don't get good by camping.

PORTUGAL
Very different from the previous two but increasingly popular. They have good line. Better than Prussia. Sadly no guard which means that a good general is essential. Their greatest asset is their light, the best in the game. Cazadores have 55 acc and 65 reload. Deadly amounts of fire power. Their rifles (Tiradores are ok) and you may wish to mix a unit with your lights to force and opponent to come to you. Portugal's biggest weakness is their cav. Their so bad they might as well not exist. They can cause a bit of disruption and can chase down routers but thats it. So they're flawed but their qualities makes them excellent at holding a centre in a 3v3, 4v4 team game. Their lack of effective cav makes them hard to recommend on the flanks or in a 1v1 but hell i like em.

Hope this is of interest and i'm not just preaching to the converted. Love to hear your opinions. More to come.

NETHERLANDS
Oh dear. Decent line and their lights (Flanquers) are ok but no guard and Nassau Jagers are feeble. They have a nice range of cav. Like Sweden, they have no lancers, but sadly no shooter cav either. Their Heavy Cav, the Carabineir are good and not too expensive. They just don't give up and can hold their own in melee disrupting your opponent while you pour in the lead. They lack that class unit that makes them easy to pick. If you do, you'll have to play well. Crucially, the lack of Guard makes a good gen essential but it also means its hard to cause real damage to a flank without them. Regular line just don't kill quickly enough and that gives your opponent a chance to reorganise themselves.

Note: The killer units in the game are lights, guard, shooter cav and lancers. If a nation is weak in any of those areas or lacks them altogether then they have problems.

AUSTRIA
Hell i like em. Some people look on them as whipping boys. Historically they fought Napoleon again and again and were defeated again and again taking horrific losses and for that they deserve respect. Austrian forces are divided into the nation that made up the Hasburg Empire. You have German Line (just poor), Hungarian Line (poor but good in melee). Some Czech regiments that are a better (available to download) and a sort of Guard unit in Archduke Charles' Legion. Line is not Austria's forte but the Hungarian units particularly their Grenadiers are very good in melee which means if you wanna storm a house or go hand to hand they are good. Grenzers (light infantry, historically from Croatia) are decent enough but might need a chevron to boost morale. A good gen really helps with Austria as they are prone to the chain rout so look after him. Don't bother with the rifles. Windbush Jagers may look great but they're not really worth the cost. Maybe on a terrain map??? Austria has a wide range of cav units. Their lancers are excellent and have good morale. They can't match the French but keep them out of cav fights and like all lancers they can be devastating. Hungarian Hussars are also a fave. Good morale and they are fast and good in a fight. Effective Heavy Cav but like all heavy cav speed is a limitation. They're a challenge but if you know their weaknesses and play to their strengths you can have fun. Any nation with those lancers has to be respected.

Originally Posted by Django29uk

AUSTRIA
Hell i like em. Some people look on them as whipping boys. Historically they fought Napoleon again and again and were defeated again and again taking horrific losses and for that they deserve respect. Austrian forces are divided into the nation that made up the Hasburg Empire. You have German Line (just poor), Hungarian Line (poor but good in melee). Some Czech regiments that are a better (available to download) and a sort of Guard unit in Archduke Charles' Legion. Line is not Austria's forte but the Hungarian units particularly their Grenadiers are very good in melee which means if you wanna storm a house or go hand to hand they are good. Grenzers (light infantry, historically from Croatia) are decent enough but might need a chevron to boost morale. A good gen really helps with Austria as they are prone to the chain rout so look after him. Don't bother with the rifles. Windbush Jagers may look great but they're not really worth the cost. Maybe on a terrain map??? Austria has a wide range of cav units. Their lancers are excellent and have good morale. They can't match the French but keep them out of cav fights and like all lancers they can be devastating. Hungarian Hussars are also a fave. Good morale and they are fast and good in a fight. Effective Heavy Cav but like all heavy cav speed is a limitation. They're a challenge but if you know their weaknesses and play to their strengths you can have fun. Any nation with those lancers has to be respected.

Austria is my favourite nation, and as such i have more wins with it than any other nation. Austria's strenghts are its cheap units (which means that you can easily bring 20 units, and a 9 star general) and its cavalry department. Uhlans are very strong (with 1 chevron they are same as french lancers!), chevau legers are very underestimated, but i see them as an awesome unit, they are fast as hussars, and pack a punch of a heavy cavalry unit. I rather have them than dragoons. Austrian Hussars are extremelly strong too, very fast unit, strong attack and charge, and it will defeat shooter cav, if shooter cav dont shoots at you first. Esspecially the 1st Hussars are an awesome unit. 800 funds cost, it has an excellent morale, very good charge and attack, and offcourse speed. The Cuirassiers apart from looking awesome in their black cuirasses, are an very cost effective unit. They devastate anything on their path, esspecially on terrain maps, because in flats they are too expensive, and lancers are better.

Austria's other strengts consist of their grenadiers. Hungarian Grenadiers are the best standard grenadier unit. They will devastate most units in melee, they can even hold the cemaats for some time, and they can defeat guard units. Also their grenades are not to be underestimated, because while they dont kill much, they are a great morale shock, so if you charge the enemy after you throw grenades, you can get a nice rout going on.

Other Austrian strenght is its artillery. Austrian howitzers are 3rd best howitzers in the game, and that makes Austria a very good faction on artillery games. Ive underestimated Austria on artillery games some times, before i realized it, and payed the price for it when i was playing as GB/FR.

As we can see, Austria got many strenghts, but it has some major weaknesses aswell!

Its Austrian Infantry. Grenzers are a good unit, not bad, not too good either. They are better than most factions lights, but they dont do well against GB, Prussian or Portuguese lights. If you position them well, and use some targeted fire, they can defeat Prussian lights though, but it is micro intensive, and good player will probably defeat grenzers anyway. If we move on to austrian line infantry, we got some variety of units to choose from. Firstly, German fusiliers, are cheap, and also bad unit. Low morale, and less accuracy and reload than most other nations. Infact only russian line shoots worse than they do. Hungarian fusiliers, shoot same as bad, but they got 7 morale, so they hold more, and they have an excellent melee capabilites, and can defeat a lot of units in melee, including russian line. 47th Czech Regiment shoots a bit better, but it strenght lies in its very strong melee. It can fight of guard units with relative ease, which makes it good for terrain maps with houses, and its not really reccomended for grassy flats. The Archduke's Charles legion is an awesome line, which very good morale, good shooting abilites and good melee. They are overall an excellent unit. 1st Regiment Emperor's Own is my favourite Austrian Line unit. It shoots almoust as a guard, have an excellent morale, and good melee. It is reccomendable for all maps. Austrian weak standard line means that Austria can easily lose straight shootouts so cavalry work is essential. Before the patch when the Hungarians got good shooting skills, austria could be counted as a major, now its a minor major.

Overall, Austria needs a very good cavalry work in order to win a battle vs stronger nations.

DENMARK
I'll be honest. I've never seen anyone win with Denmark. That's not to say they are terrible. They are just mediocre in every department. The havre 3 units of rifles to choose from but none of them are killer. They suffer the firepower deficit that all rifles face when up against lights and thats a problem. Denmark don't have lights. Sure, neither do Sweden and the Guards have the same stats. And Denmark has Grenadiers.... Hmm the difference is that Sweden has Mounted Jagers (yes we're back to shooter cav) and that makes a world of difference. Shooter Cav is OP and that is the difference between a very weak nation, Denmark, and a strong one Sweden. Because that one killer unit compensates big time for Sweden's lack of Lights, Lancers etc.

SPAIN
Away from a terrain map Spain are seriously limited. Their USP is guerillas that can be placed outside of your regular deployment zone though not within your opponents. The guerilla units are wide ranging - rifles, lights, line, lancers and heavy cav but they're still not that good. On grassy this feature is pretty useless unless your opponent is particularly dozy. On a terrain map this presents oppotunities for ambush or sudden attacks from the rear or flank etc. These are best coordinated with your many body and grilla units are weak on they're own. I once played a 4v4 on Siberian where 3 of our opps had chosen Spain. Although randoms they came up with a clever plan of pooling their grillas on one flank (mine) and attacking me in force. They placed them in the no man's land between the two armies ( maybe the rear would have been better) so when the game started i was faced with a massive force at point blank range. My Prussia army was wiped out but not before it got 1900 kills, not bad for an army that only lasted about 10 mins. It was a good idea in principle but the units are so weak they have to be used sparingly. A frontal assault will always fail. As for the rest of the Spanish, its generally poor. Poor rifles, poor lights, poor line. They have a good range of cav but the choice doesn't make up for their mediocrity. Spain are cheap. Buff them with some chevrons and bring a good gen and you may have some big success with a well placed grilla. But probably not. That said Walloon Guard rock. Their musketry is not world class but they toughness in melee and strong morale mean they have a tendency to still be there right at the end of a battle. They're stubborn and are an essential part of a Spanish build.

Note: Some units just seem to out perform their stats. I'm thinking British Light Dragoons (they hang around for ever and always seem to do more damage than they should), French Volts (they just won't die) and Walloon Guards (20 of them stubbornly meleeing you, probably in a forest).

Originally Posted by Django29uk

DENMARK
I'll be honest. I've never seen anyone win with Denmark. That's not to say they are terrible. They are just mediocre in every department. The havre 3 units of rifles to choose from but none of them are killer. They suffer the firepower deficit that all rifles face when up against lights and thats a problem. Denmark don't have lights. Sure, neither do Sweden and the Guards have the same stats. And Denmark has Grenadiers.... Hmm the difference is that Sweden has Mounted Jagers (yes we're back to shooter cav) and that makes a world of difference. Shooter Cav is OP and that is the difference between a very weak nation, Denmark, and a strong one Sweden. Because that one killer unit compensates big time for Sweden's lack of Lights, Lancers etc.

OK time to you to see someone win with Denmark, the commentarys are in portuguese, but you can still see my gameplay.

Thanks for the video. Since i wrote that post i've since another youtube vid of a Denmark victory. I think you have to be a good player to win with them because the available units are not that great. When i started this thread i wanted to highlight the strengths of some of the so called minor nations and hopefully to get more players using them. The problem with Denmark is that they don't have the kind of game changing units that many of countries have. Swedish Shooter Cav is so effective that it makes Sweden a really strong nation for a flank rush and that one unit makes a huge difference. If two players are equally capable i would favour a player with Austria, Sweden, Portugal and even Netherlands over a player with Denmark .

Originally Posted by Django29uk

Thanks for the video. Since i wrote that post i've since another youtube vid of a Denmark victory. I think you have to be a good player to win with them because the available units are not that great.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Thanks for your posts. To be honest. I still don't think they are any good. Just think you are a good player

Thanks for your comments about Austria. I will definetly give Chevau Leger a chance as i've overlooked them till now. I apologise for not including art. Its banned in so many games that i'm not that experienced in using it. I find i use german line on grassy bringing as much as 7 cav to run my opponent ragged.

I'm not too experienced in playing as RUSSIA so would appreciate help from other players. Except to say Lifeguard Foot 311 kills.... I actually started feeling sorry for those French Chasseurs.

Ottomans are not minor.....

If I let you use any major nations, and I used Ottomans and we played a best of five. Do you believe you can beat me while I use Ottomans?

@ Point_Man Couple of points on Ottomans. I kinda agree with you. When i described Ottomans and to a lesser extent Sweden as 'major minors'. The point i'm making is that the wider NTW community often overlooks the strengths of these nations in favour of GB, Prussia and France. Trust me, i don't feel confident facing Ottomans under any circumstances. I just want to stimulate debate. The popularity of Ottomans arose quite a long time after the game was released. You and i may regard them as a 'Major' but there are a hell of a lot of players out there who don't or who have never tried them. I included them on that basis.

@ Venset I agree that they have shootout capability too. Ottoman line and lights are decent enough. The diversity of units is fantastic. I don't mean to sound proscriptive when describing the 'juggernaut' tactic as i agree they are a very versatile nation.

I've had great success using Ottomans as a "shootout" army too. eg using light, line, shooter cav, some bashis for meatshield/disruption.

One great thing about Ottomans is that you can have many different army load outs filling up the 20 unit slots, with gold left over for upgrades/better general.

Oh by the way Pointman... do some Napoleon vids!

Firstly, I agree with most of what has been said.

My view is that the reason why most of the minors are what they are is because of two different reasons, them being one trick ponies or suffering from severe vanilla-ism, and also to a lesser degree of having cost-inefficient units.

To illustrate the first case: Portugal and Spain. Portugal has it's lights and line and that's it, Portugal hasn't got anything else, they lack cavalry, and their artillery is useless on a map that features terrain. So being without cavalry isn't fun on flats, and being without artillery on a terrain map isn't fun either, and this is what relegates portugal to a few teamgames only.

And spain is just sort of bad across the line, with the only thing to make up for it being the guerillas. I am going to venture though that spain would fare quite well against russia due to the guerillas being a threat to the unicorns and the line having similar shooting stats but a considerably lower price (Morale not taken into consideration).

To illustrate the second category: The Netherlands, they are the ultimate posterboy for vanilla-ism, while not quite as bad as in the early days of ETW the Netherlands tend to have the vanilla unit of everything, which means that while they don't fail in any category they just lack differentiation, so they are just outperformed by other nations that have good stuff in some of the categories and vanilla in the rest. I would say that Denmark and Austria would fall into this category aswell.

For the cost inefficiency category I would like to bring up Russia. Russia pays extra for the privilege of getting worse troops, which is so clearly bad that probably even the financial advisors of the financial crisis would have understood it. No matter if you like to charge, use artillery, or shoot Russia will turn out bad. On the charging front you end up paying for the shooting skills of the units making them relatively expensive, which means that they won't have the numbers to tank the initial casualities taken. If you like using artillery unicorns are just bad, they are inaccurate and cost a gazillion, one is better of taking France if one wants to use artillery. And I don't feel I have to explain why russia fails at shooting.

I agreee with much of what you say. Except that i think Ottomans are minor by tradition only. They are good all rounders with a melee speciality. Sweden are powerful due to their shooter cav but that's it. I'm totally with you on Russia being over priced. Its hard to come up with a good 20 unit build for instance. Like Hungarian Fusiliers their cost is boosted due to attributes that aren't that easy to use. There is a challenge with all these nations but that just adds to the enjoyment and will make us better players.

This is good information.

Yeah nice guide, what about Russia though? Cos you said minor = not GB, France or Prsussia

@ Jedi I just haven't played Russia that much so i don't feel qualified to give much of a guide. They do have some good qualities such as good overall morale and that charge bonus if you can use it. So i'm throwing this one out there to the community for your own Russia guide. For that matter please write your own guide to any of the other minors. I know some players say that Russia is the perfect nation to counter France on a 1v1. Tell us how, if you don't mind giving away your secrets.

I know there are a few Austria lovers out there, but if you think i've given Netherlands and Denmark a raw deal tell us why. Plus is there more to Sweden than a shooter cav rush?

Russia:

Russia is arguably one of most neglected factions in NTW. Most people use it only for artillery games and don't see their other potentionals other than their 20lbr Unicorns.

Russia is very diverse faction, with some great strenghts, but with many weaknesses aswell. Howewer a good Russian build can beat anything if used correctly.

If we start with Russian strenghts, they have many: Unicorns, cheap and effective cav, grenadiers & guards.
If we go more detailed into Russia we can see that it can field up to 5 very good relatively cheap Guard type Units (4 Lifeguards Foot, and a Semenovski Lifeguard). Those units got good shooting stats, and are very and i mean very tough in melee aswell (Semenovskis are best line unit in melee in the game). Furthermore they got awesome grenadier units, especially the Pavlosk Grenadiers who also inspire and are great both in shooting, but are incredible in melee with a charge of a lancer! Next Russian strenght is their cav. Incredibly cheap, yet very effective. Cossacks might rout fast, but a well placed cav charge can rout an Old Guard fairly easily. Ulans are also very effective, especially because you can spam them quite easily and en masse they do wonders. Russia also got 60 men (large unit settings) Mounted Rifles. Those are incredibly tough unit, because they have a good morale. Lifeguard Hussars are also quite a nice addition, a tough light cav unit can fight anything. Also arguably the most awesome unit in Russian army are of course the Opelechenie. Not only because of their beards, but also of their fairly good morale, and decent melee stats. Those guys will do their job of a meatshield better than other militia, and can do some damage in melee aswell.

So, Russia has many strenghts. But it is not overlooked for no reason. Russia has some very bad weaknesses too. First and foremost its their line. While it has a good morale, and awesome melee stats, its shooting stats are absolutelly terrible. Russian line infantry is one of most overpriced units in the whole game. They simply aren't worth the price even for their melee. After line we come to light infantry. which is complete waste of money. Their shooting stats seem better than militia, but honestly they shoot worse than militia does. Howewer the 17th Jaeger Regiment is a good unit. Russian lights have good melee stats for lights, which makes them more expensive, so they are same as line overpriced, because nobody wants lights to go in melee, but rather use them for shooting.

I deliberately hadn't include artillery in strenghts and weaknesses, because they are both Russia's strenght and weakness. They got Unicorns, which are from my experiences the most feared unit in the game. I've found out that there is no reason to be afraid of unicorns, and I will explain why. Unicorns have a very long range. It can destroy your howitzers for example before you even unlimber them. So, well placed unicorns, with targeted fire and general's inspire ability are incredibly strong unit. They can do an incredible ammount of kills, and sometimes you can't do nothing about it. Howewer, they have their weaknesses. Firstly, their accuracy is bad. Ofcourse with targeted fire and general's inspire ability they get very accurate, but it doesn't last for long, so in prolonged artillery fight if howitzers survived unicorns' first shells howitzers will probably win. Also, Unicorns are very expensive. Just 2 of them leaves your Russian army with limited resources. Luckily Russia got cheap cavalry, so you can still create a strong army. Remember that we were talking about 20lbr Unicorns, because 10lbers are a waste of money. Incredibly inaccurate, with just 50 more range than normal howitzers, and much more expensive, they are not worth it.

All in all, Russia got many strengths, but also many weaknesses. Practically, it can be used for rush builds, artillery games, melee builds, or cavalry heavy builds, but it is not reccomended for shootout builds such as standard Prussian 5 lights build. Russia makes a perfect French, Swedish, or Ottoman 1v1 Counter, because it can field some great Guards, cheap and effective lancers, and good shooter cavalry. In grassy flatlands 3v3 or 4v4 games it is best used on flank, but it can be used on center, with lots of cavalry for supporting purposes, given that teammates on flank can beat their opponents fast, because it cant hold for long on its own in a straight shootout.

Also, Krasnikof and Zee Bishop are claiming that Russia has the best hats in the game. Now that is a very important thing to add