Italy and the Elections

[Perikles]

Election results are coming in. The two coilitions are neck and neck. What do you think this election means for Italy and the wider World?

Source

[The White Knight]

Election results are coming in. The two coilitions are neck and neck. What do you think this election means for Italy and the wider World?

Source

...dirty politics, ey? Well, I hope Prodi can bring this country out of its economic crysis, and restore whatever prestige Italy had before Italy's richest man, Berlusconi, came into power.

[Ummon]

...dirty politics, ey? Well, I hope Prodi can bring this country out of its economic crysis, and restore whatever prestige Italy had before Italy's richest man, Berlusconi, came into power.

Prodi is the problem, not the solution.

Nothing has changed in the last two millenia in Italy... politicians are still corrupt as hell.

Uh? Sorry? Where have you garnered this brilliant opinion?

I think it's good that Berlusconi lost.
He's a corrupt politician and a criminal, and he made Italy look like a fool.

But I don't think the new coalition is strong enough and I doubt they wil last very long.

That must be why the North of Italy, (which has a GP and pro-capita revenues higher than the Netherlands, let's remember :wink: ) massively voted in favour of Berlusconi.

And yes, if they last they will worsen the economical condition, which wasn't in any case so bad as it was described, if they do not I won't be astonished.

Italy and Italians in general are extremely unstable.
What else is new?

This is what Prodi has based his whole campaign on, alongside a series of lies which have already been exposed (including the assertion that Berlusconi was 9 points under him in the polls). And even with the long recession in Europe, and many other problems, he almost managed to lose.

But he couldn't have lost: he is supported by all the corrupt powers of the country. Infact, opposed to what many would want you to believe, it is Prodi the corrupt one, not Berlusconi. Prodi's corruption though, is systemic: he is a member of the establishment, and doesn't try to achieve money for himself.

[Garbarsardar]

This is what Prodi has based his whole campaign on, alongside a series of lies which have already been exposed (including the assertion that Berlusconi was 9 points under him in the polls). And even with the long recession in Europe, and many other problems, he almost managed to lose.

For me this is the most striking aspect of the whole story: Recession, political blunders, piles of corruption allegations, the wear and tear of holding the goverment and still Berlusconi lost with the narrowest of margins. That speaks volumes about Prodi...

[Erik]

For me this is the most striking aspect of the whole story: Recession, political blunders, piles of corruption allegations, the wear and tear of holding the goverment and still Berlusconi lost with the narrowest of margins. That speaks volumes about Prodi...

And about Italian politics in general because apparently they can't find a single honest politicians in this big country.

Anyways, this starts to look a lot like the American election in 2000 ("too close to call"), with Berlusconi refusing to admit defeat until a re-count, and with boxes of valid votes simply ending up in the barbage (litteraly).

What do you guys think about the posibility of a "big coalition" between the two biggest parties, like they have in Germany?
I think I've heared Berlusconi is up to it, but Prodi doesn't even want to discuss it.
Maybe this wil be the only workable option.

[Mangalore]

For me this is the most striking aspect of the whole story: Recession, political blunders, piles of corruption allegations, the wear and tear of holding the goverment and still Berlusconi lost with the narrowest of margins. That speaks volumes about Prodi...

I actually don't care. The way Berlusconi behaves now and before the election is for me testimony that this man must be removed from power as he is not fit to rule a democratic country anymore. His behaviour suits more that of a "president for life" of some banana republic who just saw his first democratic election than that I expect from any democratic-conscious politician.

Prodi at least as these fundamental properties speaking for him.

Also it is not unnormal for poralized elections to become extremely narrow runs because people stop voting for politics or persons but for ideas or ideologies. In my eyes that how chanellor Schröder pulled the German socialdemocrats out of a devastating defeat. He did not convince the German people that he is the better man but that his party stands for certain ideas the other side would not stand for (rather polarizing giving that the cdu also has vast voting communities in the working class but still it worked). So people in the end voted for the ideas the SPD stands for rather than for the politics it proposed or has pulled through over the last few years simply because the loathed the idea of the propable CDU-FDP coalition more than that.

[The White Knight]

Prodi is the problem, not the solution.

Certainly Berlusconi is far worse than Prodi, perhaps Prodi is not the solution, but he certainly isn't the problem. The Godfather did it!

I actually don't care. The way Berlusconi behaves now and before the election is for me testimony that this man must be removed from power as he is not fit to rule a democratic country anymore. His behaviour suits more that of a "president for life" of some banana republic who just saw his first democratic election than that I expect from any democratic-conscious politician.

:sign_stup

[Garbarsardar]

I actually don't care. The way Berlusconi behaves now and before the election is for me testimony that this man must be removed from power as he is not fit to rule a democratic country anymore. His behaviour suits more that of a "president for life" of some banana republic who just saw his first democratic election than that I expect from any democratic-conscious politician.

Prodi at least as these fundamental properties speaking for him.

Who could imagine that I would speak for Berlusconi one day (or not vehemently against him anyway... ).
I think that Berlusconi bashing is an easy way to approach what seems to be a fundamental flow in the Italian political scene. By simple inspection through sources as BBC of the campaining mode of Prodi, I can safely say that he looked more like Berlusconi each day into his campaign. He tried charm, he tried insults, he tried flamboyance and late imperial exhibitionism; a style certainly un-Prodi-ish by all accounts. Berlusconi has been his bufoon self, with fewer highlights than ever and he lost to a bad copy of his. I still cannot see why removing a person will be of any importance, now that his oratorial and political style is shared by his opponents...

[Marcus Scaurus]

Nothing has changed in the last two millenia in Italy... politicians are still corrupt as hell.

[Obi Wan Asterix]

Prodi is a great administrator. The election results are good for Italy and good for the EU, albeit close, and might lead to another election soon.

[Ghoulem]

But Berlusconi has at least +9 influence, it's going to be tough. I suggest they wrestle about it.

[IamthePope]

Berlusconi supports G. Dubya's foriegn policy so he must be a good guy. I hope he wins

[Garbarsardar]

Berlusconi supports G. Dubya's foriegn policy so he must be a good guy. I hope he wins

Well, he lost. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4897994.stm)

So now the bad guy is Prime Minister. But 60% of Americans disapprove of Bush (http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm), so that makes Berlusconi, you and 37% of Americans who still support Bush the bad guys.

Except if you, Berlusconi, Bush and 37% of Americans are still the good guys. In that case you live in the country that except you, Bush and 37% of the population, the rest are bad guys.

Rambo III demonstrated that good guys can kill an average of 108 bad guys(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095956/trivia).

At the same time the NRA membership is mostly Republican, (http://www.highbeam.com/library/docf...G%3AResult&ao=) who are the good guys, and Christian (http://candst.tripod.com/nra.htm), meaning that not only the bad guys are unarmed but that also God is against them.

Considering now that the good guys have an expert shooter in the face (pun not intended) of the Vice President, this 60% of bad guys should not really scare you.

[MoROmeTe]

I've been watching the reports on the Italian and hungarian elections and coupled with a few other observations on Romania, Germany and Spain I think I am seeing a trend towards an establishment of two large forces, usually coalitions of forces left and right of the political spectrum, that are pretty close in terms of support and/or power. What this developments mean I am a little unsure...

[SovietDoom]

What this developments mean I am a little unsure...

You can probably come the the conclusion that the coalitions will amalgamate into a two party system, much like America's.

And I HATE that.



To viking: I hope Mussolini doesn't win. That guy sucks, man.

[Last Roman]

You can probably come the the conclusion that the coalitions will amalgamate into a two party system, much like America's.

And I HATE that.

I'd rather have a stable two party system than a constant stream of weak coalition governments.

[Elu Barcino]

Berlusconi supports G. Dubya's foriegn policy so he must be a good guy. I hope he wins

1). He lost.

2). Seriously, he's an idiot. in the election campaign, he compared himself to Jesus, and called those who voted for the opposition "dickheads" (I understand if a mod removes this quote due to rudeness). Not the actions of a man who deserves to lead a country.

3). He changed the electoral system just months before the election. Coincidence?

[imb39]

Wider world? Probably not a lot. Italy has economic problems faced by basically all of Europe. For Italy, the issues are more severe - declining/aging population and exhorbitant social spending costs. Will Prodi solve it - I doubt it. I'm afraid, Europe needs a dose of Thatcherism. Painful but after the medicine has worked things are better.

[Garbarsardar]

Wider world? Probably not a lot. Italy has economic problems faced by basically all of Europe. For Italy, the issues are more severe - declining/aging population and exhorbitant social spending costs. Will Prodi solve it - I doubt it. I'm afraid, Europe needs a dose of Thatcherism. Painful but after the medicine has worked things are better.

<cough> clause 28 <cough>

[imb39]

<cough> clause 28 <cough>

Clause 28 was not Thatcherism in the sense I meant it, and you know it! I was talking economically! Garb - stop stirring.