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Thread: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

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  1. #1
    Imperial's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    With the curtain coming down on the Space Shuttle Program, NASA has set its sights on the future with the announcement of a heavy-lift launch vehicle that is designed to take man beyond the moon to explore near-Earth asteroids, Mars and its moons, and beyond. Dubbed the Space Launch System (SLS) its configuration harks back to the Saturn V rocket-based systems employed to propel Apollo astronauts to the moon but also incorporates technology developed in the Shuttle Program.

    The SLS will use a liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen propulsion system, which will include the RS-25D/E from the Space Shuttle Program for the core stage and the Saturn V-derived J-2X rocket engine for the upper stage. However, initial development flights will also use solid rocket boosters. The SLS will have an initial lift capacity of 70 metric tons (154,324 lbs), which NASA points out is roughly the weight of 40 SUVs. An evolved SLS will then see lift capacity increased to 130 metric tons (286,600 lbs), which by NASA's logic would be roughly the weight of 75 SUVs.
    The initial SLS will weigh 2,500 metric tons (5.5 million pounds) and stand taller than the Statue of Liberty, at 97.5 m (320 ft) high. At liftoff it will generate 8.4 million pounds of thrust, which is 10 percent more than the Saturn V. The subsequent evolved SLS will weigh 2,950 metric tons (6.5 million pounds) and stand 122 m (400 ft) high. At liftoff it will generate 9.2 million pounds of thrust, which is 20 percent more than the Saturn V at liftoff.





    NASA says the SLS's architecture provides a launch vehicle that can be adapted to suit different missions through the use of different core stage, upper stage, and first-stage booster combinations. This flexibility is designed to allow it to more economically carry the Orion Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle, as well as cargo, equipment and science experiments to as low as Earth's orbit and as far as Mars and beyond. While NASA is looking to save money by having private companies ferry astronauts to the International Space Station (ISS), the SLS will also serve as a backup for commercial and international partner transportation services to the ISS.
    The SLS was unveiled by NASA Administrator Charles Bolden and several members of Congress on Wednesday, with Bolden saying, "President Obama challenged us to be bold and dream big, and that's exactly what we are doing at NASA. While I was proud to fly on the space shuttle, tomorrow's explorers will now dream of one day walking on Mars."


    Dreaming big is fine, but with an estimated cost of US$18 billion just for the next five years and the U.S. Government constantly modifying NASA's budget, it remains to be seen whether NASA will be able to make its dream reality. NASA stresses that the SLS architecture benefits from significantly reduced development and operations costs as it leverages existing capabilities resulting from the Space Shuttle and Constellation Programs. NASA says the early developmental flights may take advantage of existing solid boosters and other existing hardware, while a competition will be held to develop the boosters.
    "NASA has been making steady progress toward realizing the president's goal of deep space exploration, while doing so in a more affordable way," NASA Deputy Administrator Lori Garver said. "We have been driving down the costs on the Space Launch System and Orion contracts by adopting new ways of doing business and project hundreds of millions of dollars of savings each year."
    The first SLS unmanned developmental flight is targeted for the end of 2017 with the first manned flight penciled in for 2021. NASA then aims to follow up with a manned mission to a nearby asteroid around 2025 and one to Mars in the 2030s.

    http://www.gizmag.com/nasa-space-launch-system/19840/


    What do you guys think? A bust or a reality?



    18 billion dollars for 5 years almost seems like a drop in the bucket for today's government. At least these programs will be creating jobs and pushing innovation.

  2. #2
    Prosaic Visitant's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    It will help to spread the true faith to Mars, so this is good. Seriously, Mars colonisation is necessary for our people's to survive. Also, the US needs them jobs and even if the program fails, there will have been lessons learned in the relevant technical areas. So this is a good program. Though, wouldn't it make more sense to construct a space elevator before focussing on rockets of this calibre? as the space elevators are in theory much more reusable and efficient than rockets (the problem with elevators is 1) finding materials light and strong enough for the structure and 2) building the elevator). So we need to build an elevator then we can attempt these rockets.

    I mean, rockets are nice and all, but their fuel is expensive and rockets aren't exactly the most efficient method of theoretical transport from Earth surface to space.
    Last edited by Prosaic Visitant; September 15, 2011 at 05:51 PM.

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    Douchebag's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    what happened to the ion engine that NASA was developing?

  4. #4
    saglam2000's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    It probably got scrapped by whatever congressional committee overlooks NASA these days
    "The Turks are never trapped. It's the people who surround them who are in trouble."Anthony Hebert

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    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    Thread moved to Athenaeum section.

  6. #6

    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    with the first manned flight penciled in for 2021.
    Looks at the calendar.

    *sighs*
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  7. #7

    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    If NASA came up with the figure $18 billion, the actual costs will probably run in the 40-50 billions, assuming of course this project even survives the next 3-4 presidents and congresses.



  8. #8

    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    Why are they so uneasy about nuclear propulsion? It would make the journey more efficient and quicker.
    Heir to Noble Savage in the Imperial House of Wilpuri

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    Ancient Aliens's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    Why are they so uneasy about nuclear propulsion? It would make the journey more efficient and quicker.
    Because the word "nuclear" is extremely scary, or so I hear.

  10. #10

    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    And because it's a lot more expensive and tricky to design and build. Maybe if NASA had a respectable budget...

    One can only dream



  11. #11

    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    Its never going to survive future presidents since any Mars mission is given an unspecified date in the distant future.

    Constellation with a set date of 2020 didnt make it.

    Not gonna get my hopes up again. More likely we'll see a Russian flag and that ok.


  12. #12

    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    Kind of sad we are still stuck to using the same type of rockets as so many decades ago.

    Imagine if computers evolved at that pace, this forum would be quite primitive due to us just having 10 kb internet, and we would be chatting about text empires and text battles ,with strategy represented by lines and moving @ symbols.

    NASA really is trying to get the publics attention, however as the usual saying goes, "actions speaks better than words". Show us it is possible, and don't just preach. If they get a man to even the moon again, I will be impressed for it is a giant leap to where we,mankind, have been.

  13. #13

    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    Why are they so uneasy about nuclear propulsion? It would make the journey more efficient and quicker.
    How are you planning on making a space-craft nuclear powered? In space, pretty much the only way you can make something move is with an explosion. I'm not sure mushroom clouds in space will go down terribly well...

    This is exploration anyway, not really science (though this doesn't mean I am against the concept). I think that the vast majority of scientists feel the money would be better spent on unmanned probes if the objective were purely one of scientific discovery. Exploration's pretty cool though...

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    Menelik_I's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack04 View Post
    How are you planning on making a space-craft nuclear powered? In space, pretty much the only way you can make something move is with an explosion. I'm not sure mushroom clouds in space will go down terribly well...
    Actually you can use the heat of the Nuclear Reactor to heat a jet of Hydrogen, the expansion of which can push the craft forward or you could use the Reactor to create electricity to be used to power a Ionic engine ... just saying
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

  15. #15

    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    Actually you can use the heat of the Nuclear Reactor to heat a jet of Hydrogen, the expansion of which can push the craft forward or you could use the Reactor to create electricity to be used to power a Ionic engine ... just saying
    Why not just burn the hydrogen like we normally do? Seems like an unnecessary extravagance. Ion engines (when I last checked) would only be useful for journeys beyond the asteroid belt, as they take ages to get you to any decent speed.

  16. #16
    Menelik_I's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack04 View Post
    Why not just burn the hydrogen like we normally do? Seems like an unnecessary extravagance.
    Advantage is that Power is the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack04 View Post
    Ion engines (when I last checked) would only be useful for journeys beyond the asteroid belt, as they take ages to get you to any decent speed.
    Why can't we go beyond the asteroid belt ? or use Ion engine has a ''cruise engine'' drive after a short chemical burn ?

    ETA:

    I forgot something : You could refuel the Nuke rocket with most gas at the destination and you can fire the engine for much longer.

    Also a Nuke give you redundancy and back up : Almost no risk of the spacecraft running out of power, like most Explorer spacecrafts and if main engine fail you can still use Ion drive (provided it can both fit.)
    Last edited by Menelik_I; September 16, 2011 at 06:02 PM.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

  17. #17

    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack04 View Post
    How are you planning on making a space-craft nuclear powered? In space, pretty much the only way you can make something move is with an explosion. I'm not sure mushroom clouds in space will go down terribly well...
    There are limitless potential propulsion systems based simply on Newton's third law. You're not a very good engineer if you can only think of explosions. And using that law is just one possible method of propulsion. There are many other different forces already present in the solar system that could be harvested to move a spacecraft. The solar wind of gravity for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack04 View Post
    This is exploration anyway, not really science (though this doesn't mean I am against the concept). I think that the vast majority of scientists feel the money would be better spent on unmanned probes if the objective were purely one of scientific discovery. Exploration's pretty cool though...
    Odd they would think that considering the most valuable discoveries and experiments involving Mars would require human presence. We eventually want to live there. We already know about the geography of the place. In fact, they don't think that, or they wouldn't be advocating a manned flight to mars.

  18. #18

    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    Quote Originally Posted by irelandeb View Post
    There are limitless potential propulsion systems based simply on Newton's third law. You're not a very good engineer if you can only think of explosions. And using that law is just one possible method of propulsion. There are many other different forces already present in the solar system that could be harvested to move a spacecraft. The solar wind of gravity for example.
    ... so how are you planning on using nuclear power? I am quite aware of the various other proposals, but the fact is that nuclear power is actually rather restricted in terms of propulsion applications.

  19. #19

    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    NASA really screwed the pooch and the current head is a Obama yes man. I'm wondering if this is more of a way to keep everyone from leaving for other jobs after the cancellation of the last heavy lifter project.

    We shouldn't be waiting 10 years for a new lifter at this point.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  20. #20
    Menelik_I's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: NASA annouces new SLS rocket to take man to asteroid and mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack04 View Post
    ... so how are you planning on using nuclear power? I am quite aware of the various other proposals, but the fact is that nuclear power is actually rather restricted in terms of propulsion applications.
    Why is it restricted ?

    Nuclear power have lifespan of at least 10 years, it can used with almost any gas and Ion kind of propulsion, why do you say it is limited ?

    Plus Nuclear has way more energy density than chemical.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

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