Amazon:Total War - A Concept of Balanced Mod, aka Parthian Shot's Laws

[parthian shot]

This is an excerpt from the TWCenter Wiki, outlining the basic difference between Amazon:Total War - Reignited, aka Amazon:Total War 6.0 and Amzon Total War 3.0. I thought I post it here to enable public feedback and discussion.

Amazon:Total War - Reignited

This is a sequel to Subrosa's Amazon TW 3.0c mod. This mod is more of a tribute to ancient matriarchal societies based on anthropological data, not fantasy.

The following are the differences of Reignited mod vs the 3.0c mod which are outlined below
- As mentioned above, the Reignited mod is less fantasy based, more relied on archaeology and interpretations of current anthropological theories.
- The Reignited mod is more about women cavalry, as most ancient horses are mostly 12 hands tall (about 48 inches), women have distinct advantages as cavalry soldiers.
- The four Amazon factions have been renamed to reflect the lesser fantasy nature of the mod. With the fourth faction relocated to the eastern shore of Azov Sea.
- A serious attempt at establishing a direct relationship between the unit's equipment (animation skin, aka texture) and its cost of recruiting and upkeep.
- fabrics and garments are expensive and time consuming to mass produce, so wherever possible, light or non-elite units are using animal pelts or otherwise wear very little clothing.
- chain mail armors are extremely expensive and labor intensive to make.
So the textures have shown most chain mail armor suits removed or reduced, Instead most chain mails are worn as linkage or joining pieces between two major armor components.
- iron armored units are more expensive to maintain, iron rust away rather quickly, whereas the copper alloy are lessly so.
Fact is, some copper alloy are 90% as hard as the most advanced modern day steel, so there is very little incentive for factions switch to all iron armor. Only swords, spearhead, arrow tips are made of iron.
- The Egyptians are more Ptolemaic-like, so the generals are shown to be Greeks, the characters are still Egyptian in appearance as it is customary for the Ptolemaic court to retain dual cultural identities.
- more missile weapons are added,
. carriage ballista . large composite bow . giant composite bow . giant double composite bow . double bow . mano-ballista, or man-portable ballista- more type of missiles are added, such as,
. iron cased lead shot . sacred fire weapon . javelin-like arrows for giant composite bow- The mod is more about how a small but highly mobile force with stand-off missile capabilies can destroy a vast enemy force.
- All Amazon characters, diplomat, and agents are now women.
- with very few exceptions, most Amazon elite units are equestrian, not on foot.
- most Amazon units are less Hellenized, and more Phrygian or Central Asian in armors and appearance.
And their appearance is Caucasian because many modern day "Europeans" are in fact originated from the areas of Azov Sea,
At the time around 270BCE, they are mostly still around their ancestral homeland, anthropologically speaking.
- Because of the timeline stated above, most Amazon units are more light haired with colored eyes, as they are the progenitors of
many modern European people.

Balanced Unit Modeling or B.U.M. [Revised January 18th, 2013]

So in the Amazon:Total War - Reignited, there are criterion of six considerations, some called them Parthian Shot's Six Laws.

• Law #1. Community infrastructure, Unit cost and unit texture must be tied together to show direct relationships.

The game can no longer recruit full chain mail armored unit of 160 warriors from a tiny community of 700 with only a metal smith in town,

• Law #2. Chain mails are expensive and time consuming to manufacture, and where possible, use of chain mails should be minimize to limb armor, or used as linkage between two plate armor piece.

Only factions with highly developed industrial complex can field units with full chain mail suits.

• Law #3. Since iron rusts easily, units with iron armors and armor accessories are given higher recruiting as well as upkeeping costs.
• Law #4. Units with full garment are given higher cost for recruiting and upkeeping, as clothings are expensive and time consuming to fabricate.

Line unit or light unit should either have animal skin or animal pelts as clothing, or have as little clothing as possible. only aristocratic or patrician units or patrician units should have full 'uniform's.

• Law #5. Line Units should have frontal full armors only, with their backs more exposed or more vulnerable.

This is based on archaeological observation as well as extrapolated anthropological theories that units with less protected backs are less likely to turn tails and run away from a fight. It also reduces the cost of equipping such a combat unit.

• Law #6. Light unit is not light if their foot gear can not afford them to run faster through most terrains. So the true light infantry units must have proper footwear to match. The gear must protect the individual soldier from brush, thicket, and allow the individual to crawl, if the capability says the unit can disappear in high grass.

[ares7667]

These are very good ideas. Ancient societies couldn't maintain large armies in the field for long because of the costs involved. Also since with the obvious exception of the Romans the soldiers themselves had to supply their own very expensive equipment. So the majority of them wouldn't be very well armed/armored. The reconstructions we see would be based on the richer segments of their society. Only a minority of them would be able to afford it. In Law 2 you mention the cost and time involved. Most chain mail in those days was butted not riveted. The cost/time was just too much to rivet each link ex the roman hamata.

[Juffo Wup]

with the romans that was only up until the marius reforms when the state actually issued one's gear.Before that yeah people had to provide their own equiptment

[Anakarsis]

So you are giving some factions bronze/copper alloy armors instead of iron ones, but those will not be considered weaker than iron armors, right?

Question.I have heard about Female advantages in riding horses, but my question is, why these advantages would cease to be as the horses grew larger? they could be stronger, but they are still carrying a lighter rider, why they will not have the same advantages than in a smaller horse?

[parthian shot]

So you are giving some factions bronze/copper alloy armors instead of iron ones, but those will not be considered weaker than iron armors, right?

Question.I have heard about Female advantages in riding horses, but my question is, why these advantages would cease to be as the horses grew larger? they could be stronger, but they are still carrying a lighter rider, why they will not have the same advantages than in a smaller horse?

The only iron armored factions are Gaul, Roman, Carthaginians, Libyan Amazons, and Armenia.

Iron armored received slightly better defense bonus (8% in general), but the upkeep cost is doubled (three times for chain mail) due ot constant need of maintenance.

Regarding cavalry mounts. Larger horses allows men to be on the horseback wearing equivalent armors as women do. So the larger mounts equalize the men against women in cavalry combat.

[parthian shot]

Well, we are not down at all. Hopefully you are not either.

FYI

A Chain mail suit covers the upper torso and the waist requires 10,000 man hours in the 450AD. That is 800 years after the time frame of this mod is based. Before forging technique was fully developed, most metal smith (not cheap labors as you said) can produce only 16 rings a day. Most chainmail suit needs double coats, and some might even interlock between layers. because the timing of the forge must be right so the rings can be hardened to resist missile and sword blow but not brittle so that a crack would develope.

I have been to the shop and stop-watch the time requires to make the ring used on the chainmail. If you have different number based on actual measurement, please feel free to share.

Just a reminder that

1. This is not based on using already-made iron nails, and simply re-heat it to make rings.

2. cheap re-enactment chainmail is a totally different story.

Plate armor is easily made if the casting technique is used. As a matter of fact, they can be produced in large quantity, particularly for bronze. This is also timed by me while I was in Italy and actually observe the process. The casting technique has been around since 400BC. A body-shaped plate only needs an anchor mold to hold the molten metal and the press mold to shape it as it is cooled.

I would appreciate if you can justify the wording such as "absurd", or "fantasy", or "deadly" with some real scientific analysis, not just rhetorics.

Substantiated comments will help to make the mod better, otherwise, your comments would make you look like a smart-alex. And no one can therefore engage in open-minded online discussion with you.

As for your claim of unit stat have been heavily skewed, again, please provide a better and more convincing model and enlighten us as to what you think is better. This is better than hiding behind cheap words and making claims without hardfact or knowledge. It would help if you can read the weapon description section of the mod, and decide for yourself first and then post your issues or comments with fully informed opinion.

well, unit stats and costs in this mod are heavily skewed, but I see very good works in scripting so don't be down anyway

btw, some arguments:
- chain mail making is actually easier than you tought, riveting and re-welding the chain didn't need much strength or skills, and there's alot of cheap workers / slaves to do tedious works. Plus some warrior cultures actually prefer warriors who can do their own armour.
- and contrary to your "realistic" depictions, who shown a lot of plates, actually body-shaped plate armour parts is much harder to make, let alone fit, and guess why chainmail and scales are so widespread? they actually cost less to maintain than plates.
- missiles are very deadly in this mod, especially some asburd fantasy units who do extreme rate of killings

[parthian shot]

This is to made public that we have seen attempts from one member of Usanara Mod using the Amazon TW mod material for other sites, without prior consultation with me or members of the Amazon TW project team. As a result I had contacted website like Facebook to remove Facebook page which masquerade as the official Amazon Total War Facebook page.

Until I file official complaints against the said perpetrator with TWCenter Admin, I will have to set aside unsubstantiated comments on this sub-forum which does not address anything meaningful other than throwing mud balls at our project.

This might cause grudges, or ill-feelings with members like Rawana (see the message in quote above). Who advertises Usanara mod while smears the Amazon Total War mod without saying anything substantial. In short, some people from Usanara might feel this is some kind of turf war. While I know most of them should be mature enough not to get involved in this kind of prank, I have to state that if this situation persists, we will have to ask for intervention from the admins. Meanwhile, I would appreciate if all TWCenter members visiting this subforum continue to post their comments with substantiated facts. And feel free to ask questions or report bugs.

Thank You for Your Support!

[parthian shot]

This is re-posted from totalwar.org, to make the B.U.M. more complete

"...In developing the Amazon Total War mod, I have set a few principles for the project.

At the time was just for myself and my partner, but later on it was quipped as the "Parthian Shot's Laws" by other team members, so the name "Parthian Shot's Laws" stuck.

These requirements are listed below:

1. A unit model's appearance, its equipment, and its ability, must bear direct relationship with the infrastructure of the region where the unit is trained and raised, as well as with the cost of the unit.

Case in point, a town with a population of 700 and a lone blacksmith can not recruit a unit of 100 fully chain-mailed men-at-arms in a single turn. As stated below, chain mail was extremely expensive and time consuming to produce, so the texture must correspond with the cost as well as the location where the unit is recruited.

2. iron equipment and weapons are easy to rust, requires constant cleaning and maintenance, and must be assigned higher recruitment and up-keep cost.

Any one in the combat tour out in the field will vouch for the fact that iron and even steel equipment is constantly a pain for maintenance, requires polishing, oiling/greasing, rust removal, paint. A not so well-known fact is that some copper alloy can be 90% as hard as the best of modern day steel and won't rust away as easy.

So most factions in Amazon Total War are using bronze, or other type of copper alloy armors. Except the Celt, the Gauls (Arvernii), the Carthaginians, the Romans, and few others.

3. chain mail is not a lower quality armor to plate mail, it is quite effective and it is also quite expensive to produce.

A full suit of chain mail armor cost 10,000 man-hour to make in 400AD, with a very skillful armorer being able to make about two links in the chain mail a day.

So chain mail in Amazons Total War is more for linkage between major pieces of armors. Only Celts, Gauls, Romans and Carthaginians can field mostly chain mail armored units and the cost is adjusted to reflect the expenses.

4. arrow is not cheap or easy to manufacture, it require a highly developed manufacturing complex.

The shaft of the arrow requires curing and drying for 5 years, it is then lathed into the arrow shaft. Otherwise, the arrow shaft will not be straight, or was straight when it is made, but will be warped when deployed. It then needs to be varnished to protect the wood against insect (termites comes to mind), and other damages.

In Amazons Total War, only factions with rich timber resources and high industrial development can fully supply its army with large store of arrows per archer. Other factions only can get so many reloads per archers.

5. Sword is not for every militia and his/her cousin, sword is very time consuming to make, and even then, it is easy to bend and to break.

Sword making is an art, not an exact science in the ancient days, and forging a sword is time consuming and tedious work even by a highly skilled labor force.

So the use of sword in Amazons Total War is sharply curtailed, unless the unit is an aristocratic or patrician unit....

6. Light unit is not light if there is no appropriate gear to support its "lightness"

Case in point, a unit barefooted can not march fast through most terrains, even though they might be lightly equipped. They can not move as light unit.
"