Political Intrigue

**Willowran** · September 12, 2011, 02:15 PM

i dunno about anyone else, but i've always been a fan of a campaign style relying almost entirely on spies and assassins. my assassins would lock down any city i plan on assaulting by sabotaging their military strcutures several turns in advance, and my spies infiltrate and open up gates-i've even forced a revolt every once and a while. Has anyone else tried this? what are the merits of assassins/spies vs their -dismerits? unmerits?

**Kine** · September 12, 2011, 02:48 PM

I play this way as often as the AI lets me. Heavy on the upkeep so large scale espionage is only viable once economy is up and running in surplus. An army costs on average 2,500 - 3,500 to raise. Nearly the same trying to repair a sabotaged city.

In certain cases I try to impose a specific unit superiority over another faction and deny them the opportunity to recruit a type of unit. If I go heavy on cavalries I keep on destroying their barracks for eg.

A few of my campaigns I've even resorted to establishing diplomatic blackholes on a faction or two. Those guys who I rather not have them upgrade their alliances. I'd leave a gang of assassins roaming their territories and killing every diplomat entering or leaving the area. Typically done on unofficial allies ie. neutral factions who are at war with a mutual enemy. This way I get to keep them in hostile relations for as long as possible.

I also park several spies in money making cities later in the campaign to reduce rival's income. Usually on the Italians.

The effects are subtle but tangible enough to justify keeping track of a VERY long list in the Agent's scroll.

**Shasqua** · September 12, 2011, 02:58 PM

The spy/assassin city offensive is good if you want a city but can't politically afford to declare war on the owner. So you make it rebel and then take it. It's pricey, though.

**Nazgûl Killer** · September 12, 2011, 05:34 PM

It's a great strategy to avoid open war with a tougher opposition and it's a strategy I use very often. While waging war with enemy A I wage a war of espionage and assassinations against enemy B.

However, this tactic can get immensely frustrating if your highest-level assassin or spy ends up dead on a routine mission... You need to build about 10 brothels (Inns) to have a proper war and it can get pricey and annoying, but those aside, it's a fantastic wait to take more land without provoking war.

I see very few drawbacks from this strategy to be honest. The only viable drawback I can tell is that sometimes the game goes nuts and there's absolutely no way you can succeed in a relatively-easy mission (Happened to me quite a few times), for example:

I've had my assassin try and assassinate a general, 40% success rate. Assassin died.
Assassin B attempted, died. 50% success rate.
Spy tried to spy on said general, 95% success rate, died.
Assassin C attempted, died. About 40% success rate.
Spy B tried to spy on said general, 75% success rate, succeeded.

I had realized that with all those failed attempts, I had given that general numerous awesome traits making him an incredible enemy that went on to conquering half my territory as if he were the Mongols. So yeah, just remember that when a snowball starts downhill, it might just never stop.

**AJStoner** · September 12, 2011, 07:41 PM

If you are a particular fan of this kind of play you might want to check out a game called "Romance of the Three Kingdoms." Set in China during the later Han dynasty.

**Willowran** · September 13, 2011, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by AJStoner

If you are a particular fan of this kind of play you might want to check out a game called "Romance of the Three Kingdoms." Set in China during the later Han dynasty.

no link for download?

@other people: yeah i especially hate it when my greatest assassin dies of a 95% chance success mission. training the buggers takes ages under most circumstances, so getting another killing machine is a long pain in the rear.

i remember once i was playing as... i think it was scotland. i controlled the british isles but couldn't expand to the main land 'cause the english had too many soldiers. i send over an enormous amount of spies and assassins. however... i almost forgot to recruit soldiers

i never thought about the 'black hole' theory... i'll have to give that a try.

**danny X** · September 12, 2011, 09:46 PM

i find that if you do assassinations or spying last thing on your turn, you succeed more often than doing it first thing on the turn

**Fireright** · September 13, 2011, 06:50 AM

Swamping the map with teams of assasins creating havoc and bumping everyone off is a good laugh

Can't be having pesky enemy agents rolling around without my permission...Pearly Gates job.

Choker though when my best guys die of old age

**Teutonic Warlord** · September 13, 2011, 11:43 AM

Its definitely a nice strategy since it makes the game more than just fighting and killing everyone in battle. I usually like to send 5-10 bishops to the region and 1 or 2 spies to sit in the settlement causing unrest. I try to stay away from assassinating and go for sabotage on all buildings that help with order. I like to have chivalrous guys and assassinations make your FL filled with dread and makes the chivalrous guys lose loyalty. I always love sending those 10 bishops in an area with none of my religion and it will end up more than 20-30% mine after the first turn.

I have pretty much perfected my strategy and enjoy causing the enemy capitol to rebel (I do it A LOT).

**Kine** · September 13, 2011, 12:34 PM

I just hate the fact that the rebel garrisons that takes over the settlements are better than the ones they've ousted. Makes sense tho I suppose.

**Teutonic Warlord** · September 14, 2011, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Kine

I just hate the fact that the rebel garrisons that takes over the settlements are better than the ones they've ousted. Makes sense tho I suppose.

That is why in my plan that I have pretty much perfected, I go after settlements with small garrisons. And if that faction starts pouring in troops and priests in that region I send most of my priests, spies and assassins to a nearby region while keeping enough to still be a thorn in the first region. To be honest, you may have to cause problems in other regions so that you can succeed in causing your intended target to rebel (at least in a time span of 5 turns or so).

Oh, and what Shasqua said except you unfortunately don't have priests to convert people to your culture. Spies do convert people to your culture, though.

**OnlySleeping** · September 14, 2011, 02:01 PM

Yep, I just turned a Celtic city rebel in my XC game at the moment using spies and assassins. I didn't want a war with them at the time so I made the settlement rebel with the intention of capturing it afterwards.

Dirty Thracians got there first though!!!

**Shasqua** · September 14, 2011, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Teutonic Warlord

Oh, and what Shasqua said except you unfortunately don't have priests to convert people to your culture. Spies do convert people to your culture, though.

Huh? Is this something I never noticed? Are you referring to Britannia? I've never played it, so I wouldn't know.

**Teutonic Warlord** · September 14, 2011, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Shasqua

Huh? Is this something I never noticed? Are you referring to Britannia? I've never played it, so I wouldn't know.

Yep, no priests in Britannia, good governors and spies convert people to your culture. I never knew that either until like a month ago when I randomly felt like reading the Kingdoms readme file.

**AJStoner** · September 15, 2011, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Teutonic Warlord

Yep, no priests in Britannia, good governors and spies convert people to your culture. I never knew that either until like a month ago when I randomly felt like reading the Kingdoms readme file.

I based my mod off Britannia and I think that may have been an intended feature that never actually made it in.

**Willowran** · September 13, 2011, 02:41 PM

do priests convert culture as well as religeon???

@kine: it is actually better that way anyway: you can besiege them until they all starve to death and they'll never get reinforcements

**Shasqua** · September 13, 2011, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by Willowran

do priests convert culture as well as religeon???

@kine: it is actually better that way anyway: you can besiege them until they all starve to death and they'll never get reinforcements

Culture's only in the Britannia campaign for Kingdoms, and it's religion with a different name.

**hopelesshope** · September 17, 2011, 12:02 AM

Nice, I also do that. Intel gathering as well as assassinations (when I played the HRE). Especially if a certain faction really got my ire (Milan, France or the Danes most of the time), while doing a mass mobilization of military as a preparation for a general attack, I destabilize their settlements, make them rebels and it works for me (saves a lot of resources). That's low-intensity conflict for you, middle ages style, LOL.