Teatime in Egypt or using the enemies weapon against himself

[shouwaronin]

hi,

i am playing England and invaded the Fatimids in Egypt. Right now i have tried to besiege Gaza and was attacked by the Fatimids the next turn. The garrison of the city is rather small and no match but the relieving armies that surrounded my troops are quite strong. So i decided to attack the garrison, which as an attacker always leaves the protection of their castle walls. Crushing them i then pursue the fleeing forces through their gates and move all my troops into the fortress. I then position my archers on the walls and wait for the arrival of the fatimid main forces to give them a heart-warming welcome. But to my own surprise, their troops just march through my gates. Also strange is the fact that pursuing the panicked garrison troops to the second inner part of the fortress always ends with the garrison troops standing before their own gate not being able to open it although its clearly stated that its their own gate. So i am not able to advance to the main rallye point and win this battle by just waiting the 3 minutes.
I have tried this 4 or 5 times and its always the same. the outer gates though conquered by me can be used by the enemy and i have to fight them which always ends with bloodshed (preferably with the blood of my own troops cause i only have Fyrd Spearman and Militia).
Have i missed something? I really enjoyed that battle with a on my face because of my enormous intellectual achievment by using the enemies weapons against himself. Until i got my rearest part kicked by the rather not very surprised Fatimids. Not too hospitable fellows Anyone sugar or milk for his tea?

[philipjd]

the city/castle defences and gates etc only pass to the control of the attackers if they control the actual 'rally point' - that is the theory, never seen it actually happen - usually, like you, the defenders (and their reinforcements) have full access to all of the gates al of the time. You just have to take enough ladders into the city to climb over each layer of walls and provide a defensive welcoming 'mass' at any gates the re-inforcements are likely to use.

[szelbisz]

The routing units wont enter through these gates because you were too close. If your units werent in a position that would guarantee entering through these gates on the backs of the routers they would open the gates. You will have to move your ladders to get to the inner circle.

[shouwaronin]

(sigh)
so my battleplan to quickly overwhelm the garrison in order to take over the defenses won´t work because of gameplay issues? Too sad.
But i remember one occasion were i was defending a city and an enemy unit took my gate by, of course coincidence and i wasnt able to pass through that gate anymore. Does the AI use different rules in that aspect?
To use ladders to climb the walls won't succeed in my case cause the enemy reinforcements would intercept them before they could reach the gates. Using a diversion with one or two units would also be a bad idea because my troops are being smashed and scattered within a minute and the loss of those troops would be fatal afterwards in the defending. As i said the enemy reinforcements are stronger and more numerous than my troops. My only hope was to use that strategy to soften their lines and moral and later on smash the remaining forces.

[Ichon]

You can win those battle if you have very good timing- let the fleeing enemy go far enough ahead of you that the inner gate will open then run your cavalry quickly just as the gates begin opening sometimes you can make it if the fleeing enemy column is long enough.

[Andytheplatypus]

I seem to remember it working for me. Maybe you have to kill all of the current castle defenders before the reinforcements arrive. That way you should have uncontested control of the walls. At least thats the way I remember it working.

[Caesar Clivus]

I can't remember but do spies open inner gates as well or just the outer wall gates?

[Ichon]

I can't remember but do spies open inner gates as well or just the outer wall gates?

Spies open all gates.

Yes if all defenders are killed you gain control of the walls but if even 1 makes it to the inner courtyard you have to kill him.

Had a few battles where less than 5 escaped to the inner courtyard. There is a pathfinding issue where if you chase the fleeing enemy to the gates which are closed your men will not kill the enemy that is trying to flee despite standing right next to them. Tried several times with various kinds of units- only success is using no time limits moved in artillery and that killed them but in normal battles unless facing reinforcing army from the furthest map edge you don't have that amount of time.

If you stay near the walls without having killed sallying garrison which retreated to inner courtyard as soon as enemy enters the gate the wall towards will begin firing on your units despite if you have them up on the walls.

Sort of annoying and can make defending from inside the city worse than meeting the reinforcing army outside the walls.


Sieges are rife with various bugs and I generally like to fight fewer of them.

[Mr Kriegtooth]

I just keep a cavalry unit on them to pry the gates open as it were

And it IS pretty awesome to use mercs from the ME to fight them back