masculine traits

[wupwup]

im not sure if this should go here or the science section... i guess its psychology so feel free to move it. anyway i was wondering if there are set masculine traits or if they are culture based. i.e. would someone be masculine regardless of culture of time period. and is the idea of gender defined traits relevant in the new society where many women can take over the traditional bread winning role while males become the child-carer. i was reading the culture novels by ian m banks some time back about a society so advanced masculinity and femininity mean nothing, to the point that the 'people' can change their physical bodies to be whatever they want effectively destroying the gender split. obviously thats purely fictional but if we are heading for a society with blurred gender roles dose that mean that gender traits could change, or even become redundant all together

[ScottishAdam]

A dick
A beard
An adam's apple
Balls
Big muscles
Wide shoulders
A hairy arse
Interest in gadgets you plug in the wall that make a 'wurrring' sound
Humour

[Armenum]

Humour

Females can't have humour?

[wupwup]

i was thinking more decisiveness, not spending all day crying e.c.t. it seems western culture (and most cultures i presume) puts alot of pressure on men to be masculine but there are some traits i would rather not adopt. such as beeing less nurturing / more distant with your children. ive also heard homophobia refered to as a male trait but i dont see how that can be true. either way, i would rather be more feminine and a better dad who isnt homophobic than the other way round.

[ScottishAdam]

i was thinking more decisiveness, not spending all day crying e.c.t. it seems western culture (and most cultures i presume) puts alot of pressure on men to be masculine but there are some traits i would rather not adopt. such as beeing less nurturing / more distant with your children. ive also heard homophobia refered to as a male trait but i dont see how that can be true. either way, i would rather be more feminine and a better dad who isnt homophobic than the other way round.

A lot of our culture is actually created and pushed through the media over the decades. There is actually a culture creation section of the CIA. You should check this link out from a long term very intelligent researcher 'Alan Watt'. You don't have to believe every detail but the premise is spot on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DubxhHu2CVE

There seems to be a push for a more femized male in recent times. This may be used to keep the agression directed at our elite masters at a minimum.

[wupwup]

that sounds like a conspiracy theory but its actually beleivable. so dose that mean there are set traits that are universally masculine, but cultures adopt the ones that suit them best?

[StealthFox]

You may be interested in research involving wild chimpanzees.

http://news.discovery.com/animals/fe...ks-101220.html

Apparently, female chimps like to play with dolls and male chimps do not. This suggests that there are biological differences and not just cultural or social ones.

[wupwup]

the thing is, generally the more you go toward being an intellectual you become more feminine...thats why girls go after jerks at that point, because they have more masculine traits, such as being independant and confident.

why would an intellectual be less independent or confident? the most masculine trait is power surely? and knowledge is power

You may be interested in research involving wild chimpanzees.

http://news.discovery.com/animals/fe...ks-101220.html

Apparently, female chimps like to play with dolls and male chimps do not. This suggests that there are biological differences and not just cultural or social ones.

that looks cool. thanks. i guess its biologically important to have a strong provider / protector and a strong nurturing force to keep the next generation safe. makes sense.

[dogukan]

why would an intellectual be less independent or confident? the most masculine trait is power surely? and knowledge is power

It is indeed, I was just tying to point out that most people who raise their "superego" lose their masculine side.

[LSJ]

You may be interested in research involving wild chimpanzees.

http://news.discovery.com/animals/fe...ks-101220.html

Apparently, female chimps like to play with dolls and male chimps do not. This suggests that there are biological differences and not just cultural or social ones.

I remember that being discredited a while ago by scientists who went through the study and critiqued the methods. There were male chimps that played with 'dolls' and female chimps that did not. The time of their interaction was also not considered; we don't know how long the chimps held any interest in their dolls, and merely picking up the doll was considered playing.

From what I remember it was simply a badly done study that didn't prove anything. The researchers really should have declared it inconclusive.

[StealthFox]

I remember that being discredited a while ago by scientists who went through the study and critiqued the methods. There were male chimps that played with 'dolls' and female chimps that did not. The time of their interaction was also not considered; we don't know how long the chimps held any interest in their dolls, and merely picking up the doll was considered playing.

From what I remember it was simply a badly done study that didn't prove anything. The researchers really should have declared it inconclusive.

Source?

Not that I don't believe you, but I find the research interesting and would like to read the new studies/research and what other scientists have said.

[dogukan]

the thing is, generally the more you go toward being an intellectual you become more feminine...thats why girls go after jerks at that point, because they have more masculine traits, such as being independant and confident.

[Col. Tartleton]

Modern Masculine traits:

Honesty: Being willing to tell the truth regardless of consequence.
Responsibility: Being willing to accept the blame for your own failings and the people you are responsible for.
Fortitude: Being willing to fight for the long haul.
Courage: Being willing to defend your property (including your relationships), the truth, and your rights.
Humor: Being willing to laugh at yourself and unafraid to make fun of others when its called for.

You want to be able to have a tea party with a two year old girl and then wrestle a bear to protect her to be a great man and thus a great father because they are indistinguishable.

[ScottishAdam]

Modern Masculine traits:

Honesty: Being willing to tell the truth regardless of consequence.
Responsibility: Being willing to accept the blame for your own failings and the people you are responsible for.
Fortitude: Being willing to fight for the long haul.
Courage: Being willing to defend your property (including your relationships), the truth, and your rights.
Humor: Being willing to laugh at yourself and unafraid to make fun of others when its called for.

You want to be able to have a tea party with a two year old girl and then wrestle a bear to protect her to be a great man and thus a great father because they are indistinguishable.

That does not apply to a male in any position of authority or power in the world. Try applying that to a politician or private banking scum bag. It could not be more inaccurate.

I know where you are coming from though with regards to the real family man dad kind of person. Unfortunately these traits are becoming less and less common in today's reality TV, self obsessed, winner takes all world

[Col. Tartleton]

That does not apply to a male in any position of authority or power in the world. Try applying that to a politician or private banking scum bag. It could not be more inaccurate.

I know where you are coming from though with regards to the real family man dad kind of person. Unfortunately these traits are becoming less and less common in today's reality TV, self obsessed, winner takes all world

A ego driven boy in a suit and a man are two different beasts though they appear similar superficially. There are some men in Washington and Wallstreet, but selfishness rules. The difference between a true Alpha Male and a Beta Male trying to fake it is ethics. Great Men and Good Men are rarely the same men.

Women are not Men. Some women have male tendencies and some men have female tendencies. That's okay. We are generalizing. Most men and Most women fall into categories. We've got different bodies, different hormone ratios, different upbringings, different wiring. Every person is different but there are definitely trends.

Men have Virtue. Women have Grace.

[ScottishAdam]

A ego driven boy in a suit and a man are two different beasts though they appear similar superficially. There are some men in Washington and Wallstreet, but selfishness rules. The difference between a true Alpha Male and a Beta Male trying to fake it is ethics. Great Men and Good Men are rarely the same men.

Women are not Men. Some women have male tendencies and some men have female tendencies. That's okay. We are generalizing. Most men and Most women fall into categories. We've got different bodies, different hormone ratios, different upbringings, different wiring. Every person is different but there are definitely trends.

Men have Virtue. Women have Grace.

Barry

[wupwup]

Modern Masculine traits:

Honesty: Being willing to tell the truth regardless of consequence.
Responsibility: Being willing to accept the blame for your own failings and the people you are responsible for.
Fortitude: Being willing to fight for the long haul.
Courage: Being willing to defend your property (including your relationships), the truth, and your rights.
Humor: Being willing to laugh at yourself and unafraid to make fun of others when its called for.

You want to be able to have a tea party with a two year old girl and then wrestle a bear to protect her to be a great man and thus a great father because they are indistinguishable.

those arent nesseseraly masculine traits, but they are the traits of a great person. being 100% masculine isnt the best thing for every situation.

scottish adddams idea of a banker is more he 100% male, but i know who i would rather be, and it isnt the scumbag with a 6 figure bonus

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

Modern Masculine traits:

Honesty: Being willing to tell the truth regardless of consequence.
Responsibility: Being willing to accept the blame for your own failings and the people you are responsible for.
Fortitude: Being willing to fight for the long haul.
Courage: Being willing to defend your property (including your relationships), the truth, and your rights.
Humor: Being willing to laugh at yourself and unafraid to make fun of others when its called for.

You want to be able to have a tea party with a two year old girl and then wrestle a bear to protect her to be a great man and thus a great father because they are indistinguishable.

Add:

Excessive Drinker
More concerned with sports than national affairs

[basics]

Col. Tartleton,

I especially liked the part about being able to laugh at yourself because I have found over the years that this is the greatest icebreaker when being introduced to a strange company. As you know I am a Conservative fundamentalist Christian bigot. What you don't know is that I have what can be construed a Roman Catholic name and am perceived by many to be Jewish because of my nose, therefore my first introductory words included all that which usually raised a few laughs.

As for the others all I can say is that I hope I have lived up to all of them but in truth I know my failures. Nice list though.

[Col. Tartleton]

Col. Tartleton,

I especially liked the part about being able to laugh at yourself because I have found over the years that this is the greatest icebreaker when being introduced to a strange company. As you know I am a Conservative fundamentalist Christian bigot. What you don't know is that I have what can be construed a Roman Catholic name and am perceived by many to be Jewish because of my nose, therefore my first introductory words included all that which usually raised a few laughs.

As for the others all I can say is that I hope I have lived up to all of them but in truth I know my failures. Nice list though.

I'm a conservative (almost as much as you though for different reasons) libertarian nihilistic idealist atheist bigot. I have a Celtic name and a "Jewish nose" because I am both. Fundamentally you think humans are filth and I think we are meaningless but I try hard to prevent it from getting me down. I think you're naive and unethical. You think me ignorant and immoral.

Likewise I wish I was without my weaknesses even though I see no sin in them. If I was stronger I would be better able to hold people up.