Without the Catholic Church

[Primo]

Well, title explains it. Assuming the Catholic Church would vanish completely, and all priests/other employees got normal jobs. No one believes in the Christian view of the world anymore, the vatican ceases to exist and Ratzinger retires:

What do you think would happen? Would the world be changed for the better or would it be worse?

This is assuming, of course, that God either doesn´t interfere, or not exists. And plz don´t spam something like "Then there wouldn´t be child rape anymore" as the priests comitting the crime would just change in normal people committing the crime.

This is just about how the world would change, not if the church itself is a good or bad thing.

I think the world would change for the worse, as the church helped many people and the moral for which it stands (even if it is not always fullfilling them) is a good moral, and without moral the world is definitly a darker place. But thats just my opinion.

The thread is about the (possible) political changes if the catholic church is removed:

What would change in the politics and goverment? The Catholic church was always, at any time of its history, engaged with goverments. It tried to block many political actions while it supported others. Without it, goverments would be more free to take harder actions without fearing bad publicity if the Church doesn´t like it.

[Adar]

The majority of the worlds crazy christians are protestants so wiping out catholicism wouldn't really help.

The catholic church is even accepting evolution so I wouldn't have anything against them if they just stopped interfering with attempts to stop the spread of HIV.

[Vizsla]

Depends on who gets all that vast wealth and what it gets spent on. You could make a lot out of their property holdings too.
If you could spend all that cash on good things and keep the same income coming in year on year then you could definitely use it to make the world a better place.
Is it likely that the money would be spent constructively for the greater good? No. But then this is a hypothetical so that aspect of reality is irrelevant.

[Himster]

Removing the meet and mild comforter from the bosom of the sheeple across the world? You think they'll just dust themselves off quickly develop a sense of right and wrong independent from big-brother? Another crutch would quickly be slotted in the gap and I have a suspiscion that the replacement could never be as homogeneous or as mild as the current catholic church.

[Drustan]

As someobody who has been to both Catholic and Protestant church services regularly depending on where I lived, I really don't consider one to be better than the other. My only complaint about the CC are the fact they refuse to condone the use of condoms, which if they did would have a massive impact on the spread of HIV and in some cases would reduce poverty due to a reduced birth rate. However, you have to respect the fact that this is a religious rather than a practical view, in the same way that most muslims refuse to eat pork, even though in this day and age it makes little sense to non- muslims.

The other faults, such as child abuse and greed are faults with individuals within the church, rather than church policy itself.

[Jack04]

If it ceased to exist now, I'd struggle to care. In the past however (despite press to the contrary, normally self-created) the Church did inspire many great works of both art and science. Now? I think it's become something of a bloated parody of its former self and wouldn't miss it were it gone.

[Darth Red]

Moved the thread into the PA per request

[Basil II the B.S]

For once, Italy would get all the buildings the Vatican doesn't even pay taxes for.
Plus we would get rid of all that unnecessary bigotry, lies and censorship.
The only problem I see in this scenario, is being left alone with commies. Catholics aren't as bad as them.
And fanatics generally come from the Anglo-Saxon world, so you'd have to clean there too.

So, dunno, not sure if the world would be a better place.

[Cat-astrophic]

If the Catholic Church never existed we would have space ships, teleporters and stuff like immortality pills like we have in places such as China and Japan. Oh wait we don't have such things anywhere in the world, even where the Catholic Church was not present!

[SonOfOdin]

I don't know about the world, but Malta sure as hell would be better.

[neoptolemos]

I don't know about the world, but Malta sure as hell would be better.

Really?
and what about the castle and fortifications the CATHOLIC knights build and shape your architectural environment?

[Tyler_the_Great]

You over estimate the catholic chruch, Allmost all the christians I know are not catholic. In fact the catholic chuch holds little sway over Chrstianity in America. Europe may be another matter...

[Himster]

You over estimate the catholic chruch, Allmost all the christians I know are not catholic. In fact the catholic chuch holds little sway over Chrstianity in America. Europe may be another matter...

It's the largest sect of any religion in human history: 1.181 billion. So yeah, a pretty big deal.

[Primo]

You over estimate the catholic chruch, Allmost all the christians I know are not catholic. In fact the catholic chuch holds little sway over Chrstianity in America. Europe may be another matter...

Europe is another matter.

For once, Italy would get all the buildings the Vatican doesn't even pay taxes for.
Plus we would get rid of all that unnecessary bigotry, lies and censorship.
The only problem I see in this scenario, is being left alone with commies. Catholics aren't as bad as them.
And fanatics generally come from the Anglo-Saxon world, so you'd have to clean there too.

So, dunno, not sure if the world would be a better place.

You do realise the Vatican is on his own territory and doesn´t have to pay taxes? But while it doesn´t have to, it does indeed bring Italy much Money trough Tourism - just look at how many people visit the churches, cathedrals ... . Even if the Church is full of "unnecessary bigotry, lies and censorship", what shouldn´t be debated here, it gives Italy a lot more money as if they would pay taxes.

And I don´t know what you mean with "clean there, too". Sounds to me like cleaning with a machine gun, the way your whole post is written.

[Basil II the B.S]

You do realise the Vatican is on his own territory and doesn´t have to pay taxes?

The buildings the Vatican owns in the rest of Italy of course (estimated over 100.000). Nobody said anything about what happens within that small little place.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...l-2106113.html

That's 2 billions per year to begin with.

what shouldn´t be debated here, it gives Italy a lot more money as if they would pay taxes.

ROFL, no. Read the article. Actually, the Vatican is a cancer for the Italian economy.
It gains money from tourism related commercial activities, it gains money from the 0.8 tax, and it doesn't pay taxes as I mentioned above.

[hellheaven1987]

The buildings the Vatican owns in the rest of Italy of course (estimated over 100.000). Nobody said anything about what happens within that small little place.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...l-2106113.html

That's 2 billions per year to begin with.

It is actually legal.

The Church was exempted from paying the tax, known as ICI in 2005 by a centre-right government under the then Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi. The conservative premier is now back in power after re-election in 2008.

Which means there are Italian laws that allow Vatican not paying property tax.

[Pontifex Maximus]

You over estimate the catholic chruch, Allmost all the christians I know are not catholic. In fact the catholic chuch holds little sway over Chrstianity in America. Europe may be another matter...

This statement could not be more wrong, unless you think that all the protestant denominations are the same, which they certainly are not. Roman Catholicism is the largest Christian denomination in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholi..._United_States

"The Catholic Church in the United States is part of the worldwide Catholic Church, the Christian Church in full communion with the Pope. With more than 68.5 registered million members, it is the largest single religious denomination in the United States, comprising about 22 percent of the population."

[jbersie]

You over estimate the catholic chruch, Allmost all the christians I know are not catholic. In fact the catholic chuch holds little sway over Chrstianity in America. Europe may be another matter...

Depends on where you are in america as well. I am from New England and catholics are the single largest denomination up here by far. Sorta has an effect on you where more of the population is from Irish and Italian then any other ancestry

[Dr. Croccer]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charities

In 2008, Catholic Charities agencies served over 8 million individuals.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...5/b3778004.htm

CATHOLIC INSTITUTIONS

SCHOOLS
The Church is the largest operator of private schools in the U.S., with over 2.6 million students enrolled in its 6,900 elementary schools and some 1,200 high schools, costing roughly $10 billion a year. Most of the elementary schools are attached to local parishes, while high schools are often run by a Catholic religious order, such as the Jesuits or Christian Brothers. Although tuition has been rising sharply, schools still receive large subsidies from the Church.

UNIVERSITIES
There are 230 Catholic colleges and universities with a combined total of 670,000 students. Most colleges are sponsored by a religious congregation, like the Jesuits, who have 28 colleges--including Georgetown, Boston College, and Holy Cross. Just 11 are sponsored by a diocese, and only Catholic University in Washington is directly sponsored by the Church. There are few direct financial ties between most Catholic colleges and the Church. Most are run by a lay board of trustees. Like other private colleges, tuition is the primary source of revenue, though some have sizable endowments, like Notre Dame's $2.8 billion.

HEALTH CARE
The nonprofit health-care system includes 637 hospitals, accounting for 17% of all U.S. hospital admissions. The Church also runs 122 home health-care agencies and nearly 700 other service providers, including assisted living, adult day care, and senior housing. The hospitals alone have annual expenses of $65 billion and account for 5% of U.S. health-care spending.

CHARITIES
Catholic Charities USA consists of 1,400 agencies that run soup kitchens, temporary shelters, child care, and refugee resettlement. In 1999, Catholic Charities had collective revenues of $2.34 billion. Most of that comes from state and local governments and from program fees. The Church accounts for only about 12% of income.

Data: Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University; National Catholic Educational Assn.; Catholic Health Assn.; U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops; Catholic Charities USA

http://crs.org/

http://www.migrationinformation.org/...lay.cfm?id=395

While active in the immigration reform movement, the church has also struggled to adapt its core institutions to the needs of today's immigrant Catholics. As an example, Catholic Charities agencies represent the nation's largest charitable social service network. Based on the needs of newcomers, this network has rapidly transformed into both a social service and a legal network, with 159 agencies now providing legal services to low-income newcomers.

Since 1975, the US bishops' conference — through its Migration and Refugee Services (MRS) division — has resettled nearly 900,000 refugees in dioceses throughout the country. The Catholic Legal Immigration Network, Inc. (CLINIC) supports a national network of Catholic Charities and diocesan legal programs that serve nearly 400,000 immigrants per year. These programs help low-wage newcomers secure work authorization, reunify with family members, become US citizens, and gain protection from persecution.

Both networks serve particularly vulnerable newcomers, such as torture survivors, detained immigrants, victims of human trafficking and, of course, the unauthorized. Beyond immigration-specific agencies like MRS and CLINIC, the church extends all of its development, social service, community organizing, and pastoral ministries to migrants and newcomers.

http://www.cbcisite.com/Survey%20On%...in%20India.htm

Catholic Educational Institutions in India (Rural-Urban)

Particulars
Number
Percentage
Rural
8621
59.3
Urban
5918
40.7
Total
14,539
100

A. Educational Institutions run by Dioceses (Rural-Urban)

Particulars
Number
Percentage
Rural
4661
71.1
Urban
1895
28.9
Total
6,556
100

B. Educational Institutions run by Congregations (Rural-Urban)

Particulars
Number
Percentage
Rural
3960
49.6
Urban
4023
50.4
Total
7,983
100

Overall Percentage of Total - 14,539
Institutions run by Dioceses - 45.1 (%)
Institutions run by Congregations - 54.9 (%)

TYPES OF INSTITUTIONS
#

Category

Total Institutions
1

Schools (LKG to XII)

13,004

2

Specialized Schools

243

3

Colleges

448

4

Formal Technical Institutions

534

5

Non-Formal Educational Institutions

310

GRAND TOTAL

14,539

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholi...United_Kingdom

In England and Wales, Catholic schools are either independent or voluntary aided, with the funding divided between the state and the Catholic Education Service. The service provides education for approximately 840,000 pupils each year through its 2,300 schools. In addition, some 130 independent schools have a Catholic character.[14][15] The Catholic Education Service in their website indicates that they interact on behalf of all bishops with the government, and other national bodies on legal, administrative, and religious education matters. This as their website indicates is to: “promote Catholic interests in education; safeguard Catholic interests in education; and, contribute to Christian perspectives within educational debate at national level.”[16] There have been considerable changes to the way the money has been collected to the support of Catholic schools. The money towards the Catholic community in regards to building and supporting schools has risen from 50% to 90% in both England and Wales. In 2009, Catholic schools in England comprised two-thirds of all religious secondary schools

According to the latest figures from Department of Education, N.I. Statistics Branch 2006/2007, the number of pupils registered at school in Northern Ireland is 329,583. The number of pupils attending Catholic managed schools is 148,225

Worse.

/thread

[Phier]

The problem with 'what if' history is there is no way to predict the 'whats'.

Being people seem to like religion for some reason, if the CC went away, those people would head to some other group, and the CC is pretty low on the crazy list.