(Proposal) M2TW engine available for some modders ?

**sinople** · September 06, 2011, 10:16 AM

Hello,

I think you all know the history of great mods that was developped not with normal allowed files but with the full engine of the game. For instance their names are For the glory, Magna Mundi, Darkest Hour, Counter Strike, With Fire & Sword...

So now that M2TW begins to be a little more old and knowing that it's still mainly the most visited section of TWC (thanks to great mod like TATW, COW, EBII, SS, DLV...) maybe CA may help a little more modders ?
There is many possibility : giving us more files to deal with in order to break some modding restriction, or even an access to the full game engine to some modders who show their motivation (like Paradox is doing for exemple).

What do you think about that idea ? M2TW is now sold thanks to its mod, maybe this could make some new money for CA and some new great mod for us in order that everyone is ok with that ?

I edit the post due to the question that has been asked :
- I thought this was an kind of hope for us : http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=463622
- If SEGA/CA offers to some modders the game engine, they won't loose their rights, they'll just give the authorization to some people to make a game on it and make some money but the modders won't have all the rights on the game/mod.
- If M2TW is too new (well if for you 5 years it new), RTW isn't !
- This is not a copy of the suggestion of the Curia to purchase RTW engine ( http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=456004 ), I'm suggesting here that SEGA/CA keep all the rights and the biggest part of the income.

Should I post this on official forums, or is there here CA membres still reading ?

**Druvatar De Bodemloze** · September 06, 2011, 01:14 PM

Every modder has come up aqainst wanting to do something but they couldn`t because of it being a area of modding there is no access to:
I think CA would be wise to to foster the modding abilities of mtw2
reason: very simple although mtw2 is a great game in its own right! if it were not for mods it would probably be a "dead" game already! ( as it is quite mature) the modding community has only continued too revitalize
An "make profitable" a game for CA which would have been archaic Long ago had it not been for the creativity & new elements infused into the game but for this to continue, we as modders need greater access to implement our ideas and abilities.
thank you

**AJStoner** · September 06, 2011, 01:26 PM

Here here!

**Nelduin** · September 06, 2011, 02:24 PM

Totally agreed. And I think it would be interesting from CA's point of view, because it could improve the game's longevity, and allow people to buy the game (which begins to become old) only because of its mods, as a lot of players did when they bought ALX just to play mods like LotR - TW.

So, of course it would really be a sign of intelligence from CA and a reward to the numerous fans who follow the TW and buy their games since years.
And furthermore, in the meantime, it would be great to do the same thing for RTW.

**Konstantinos XI Palaiologos** · September 06, 2011, 04:13 PM

Basileia Total War Team agrees!
Give us the opportunity to mod the game to 100% may be the best way to take advantage of all the potential still untapped in the game.
For example, we of BTW team are aiming to recreate a historical situation as closely as possible, and have the freedom to modify some items that are currently hard-coded would allow us to demonstrate how Medieval II is still a great game with huge possibilities.

**Primo** · September 06, 2011, 04:33 PM

Wouldn´t they loose all their rights on the game if it is allowed to be fully modified?

**Druvatar De Bodemloze** · September 06, 2011, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by Nightmare Moon

Wouldn´t they loose all their rights on the game if it is allowed to be fully modified?

for this to be a win,win situation for both modders & Ca, is give us greater access!
if people are "dying to play a mod, modders created but still need the core game to load Ca still wins out (me thinks) I for one would buy mtw2 right now (because of all the diverse mods) if I never heard of it before, without the mods I`d probably pass on mtw2, point in fact I originally got interested in mtw2 because of its modding & mods, on it`s own nice game but not one to be desired! the mods change this
& think about all the frustrating bugs mods have fixed! if you ask me, CA is getting the better end of the "stick" when it comes to modding "it`s like they got a free & vast team of developers to upgrade & improve their game, which you still need their (CA`s) game to play these mods!" I am sorry that is a weak argument!.

**Primo** · September 07, 2011, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by Druvatar De Bodemloze

for this to be a win,win situation for both modders & Ca, is give us greater access!
if people are "dying to play a mod, modders created but still need the core game to load Ca still wins out (me thinks) I for one would buy mtw2 right now (because of all the diverse mods) if I never heard of it before, without the mods I`d probably pass on mtw2, point in fact I originally got interested in mtw2 because of its modding & mods, on it`s own nice game but not one to be desired! the mods change this
& think about all the frustrating bugs mods have fixed! if you ask me, CA is getting the better end of the "stick" when it comes to modding "it`s like they got a free & vast team of developers to upgrade & improve their game, which you still need their (CA`s) game to play these mods!" I am sorry that is a weak argument!.

And how much would they really earn through it? Not much. Mods aren´t played by many, we are the minority (the smart one

). I doubt they would earn more than 100 € through, which clearly isn´t worth it.

Also: Against public opinion a game isn´t there to make the player happy. It is there to make the player pay for the game, what after that happens isn´t really of interest.

I would propose they would change a few hardcoded limits for RTW (like the annoying 20+1 factions, 30 would definitly make me more content), and release an fast-done addon which consists out of these changes and maybe a few other changes, so that even a normal player would buy it. That way both CA and the Community would profit, but the hardcoded limits are still there - but less annoying. That would be the Way I would do it If I would be CA.

**sinople** · September 06, 2011, 05:34 PM

Wouldn´t they loose all their rights on the game if it is allowed to be fully modified?

Nope, the modders who would want to have acces to the full acces must show "pate blanche" before and/or pay some money.
For instance, Paradox is doing a percent on every sale of mod from its game engine (if I remember well it's like 20% for modders and 80% for Paradox, but I might be wrong).

But SEGA may also give more files to break some limits for everyone.

**Veliky Kaiser Theos** · September 07, 2011, 12:09 AM

It's not going to happen. Why would people buy new games from them if modders were still developing this engine?

**IVIarkI2I** · September 07, 2011, 01:33 AM

they will better release medieval III than giving us full acces and rights to modding medieval II engine

**sinople** · September 07, 2011, 03:35 AM

- Have you all have a look at how many people are looking to M2TW forums compared to other TW sub forums ?
- Have you look at how much times mods such as TATW, COW, BC has been downloaded ? And I'm almost sure everyone here knows someone who bought M2TW and Kingdoms just to play mods.

And if CA release the engine (which is just one part of the proposal), what will this costs to them : nothing. And even if they just earn a little, this kind of action is also good for the image -not sure if this is an english appropriate term- of the company. Mods like TATW it is free add for CA etc.
Look at how many copies of With Fire & Sword, For the Glory, Counter Strike etc has been sold : really much, nothing here is sure about the fact this won't be a benefit for CA. And TW games are realy more played than Paradox ones.

(I must also say that I don't understand why you are not asking for that and saying CA will earn nothing, you have money invested in CA ?)

**Primo** · September 07, 2011, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by sinople

- Have you all have a look at how many people are looking to M2TW forums compared to other TW sub forums ?
- Have you look at how much times mods such as TATW, COW, BC has been downloaded ? And I'm almost sure everyone here knows someone who bought M2TW and Kingdoms just to play mods.

And if CA release the engine (which is just one part of the proposal), what will this costs to them : nothing. And even if they just earn a little, this kind of action is also good for the image -not sure if this is an english appropriate term- of the company. Mods like TATW it is free add for CA etc.
Look at how many copies of With Fire & Sword, For the Glory, Counter Strike etc has been sold : really much, nothing here is sure about the fact this won't be a benefit for CA. And TW games are realy more played than Paradox ones.

(I must also say that I don't understand why you are not asking for that and saying CA will earn nothing, you have money invested in CA ?)

I dont say this is a bad argument, just that it won´t happen this way. I would bet everything on it.

**sinople** · September 07, 2011, 04:20 AM

Nobody knows how the future will be and if you say here that won't happen rather than arguing for the proposal it won't help

**Primo** · September 07, 2011, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by sinople

Nobody knows how the future will be and if you say here that won't happen rather than arguing for the proposal it won't help

You got a point there.

Still, I think the only way something like this would happen if CA would release a small Addon which adds a few new factions/units and change the hardcoded limits to be less strangeling for a modder, not remove them.

Because I still think it is a problem with the rights. If everyone can modify the engine, you would just have to edit it a little bit to have - technically - a new game, which can be freely distributed. It is not like the rule over not sharing vanilla-files came out of the nowhere, you know. CA would loose an entire game on the market, which brings no profit at all.

**Grimmy** · September 07, 2011, 05:55 AM

You could take a good look at what Paradox did. Might be some useful info there to help you make your sales pitch to the CA guys.

Paradox made their older engine available to proven modders and mod teams. I don't know the details of the transaction but there contracts were involved, iirc.

As a result, a whole slew of new games were made. Darkest Hour. Iron Cross. etc. Paradox then put the games up for sale on GamersGate and the modders make some cash off their work.

I tend to buy modder's product when possible even if just to say thanks to modders for making my vanilla games worth playing in the first place with the free stuff they let me mooch.