Saruman and the One Ring

[Adjudant-Major]

As I suggested a few days ago in the Suggestions thread, I wrote some simple scripts that make the following :

- an Isengard general is able to get the One Ring
- he may than give it to Saruman or take it to Gorgoroth
- if he gives it to Saruman, Mordor looses the Nazgul, the unit of Nazgul on foot joins Isengard, Isengard gets some money, but Mordor and the Dark Lord declare war on Saruman
- if he takes it to Gorgoroth and stays there for two turns, the Ring goes to Sauron (actually the general must be Ugluk and no other as I am unable to take the Ring from an unspecified named character, however I might add more, Lurtz and others, to make it easier)

Many will say the Nazgul would never join Saruman even if he was able to use the Ring. I base this feature on one of the Unfinished tales and I am not going to defend it it's just an option in my game.

Everything works fine, except I am unable to get the Ring from Frodo killed in a field battle, I can only get it from him in Hobbiton. These two things don't seem to work :

one_ring triggers

;---------------------------------------------- Trigger one_ring_battletrigger_frodo WhenToTest PostBattle Condition WonBattle and IsGeneral and GeneralWithAncKilled one_ring_frodo AcquireAncillary one_ring chance 100 ;---------------------------------------------- Trigger one_ring_battletrigger WhenToTest PostBattle Condition WonBattle and IsGeneral and GeneralWithAncKilled one_ring AcquireAncillary one_ring chance 100

Would anyone have an idea why ? I would expect the ancillary one_ring appear with the general right after the battle, with all those other possible ancillaries he may get (and gets).

[Thorïn II Oakenshield]

Awesome idea (but not for Nazgûl) !

[David93]

Can i ask which unfinished tale?
what does saroun getting the ring do?
when you send the ring to saruman and he gets the nazguls are you also sending the mordor nazgul generals off map?
When saruman gets the ring it would be cool if he got a power boost, you could increase the strength of his hero power or give him a more powerful bodyguard, or make the ringwraiths his bodyguard.

Also i cant see why that wouldnt work
does your system log say anything?

[Adjudant-Major]

It's the Gandalf's story about the Nazgul seeking for the Shire, where they visit Saruman and he tells to the Witch-King that if he (Saruman) had the ring, they would call him master.

What does Sauron ? I use the Sauron submod, so basically he may leave Barad Dur, gets some units.

Sauron's Nazgul are sent off map. Most probably I will make some spawns of orc generals for Mordor for that case.

I am not sure about the Nazgul as Saruman's bodyguards. The problem is the number of soldiers in the unit... even now they are ten, not nine, with a faction leader they might be seventy BTW where is the small-normal-large-huge unit size definition ? I suppose it is not possible to make one value for all and make the numbers of soldiers in the units fixed ?

True, even he personally might get some bonus.

There's nothing in the log about the one_ring or the trigger.

[Withwnar]

GeneralWithAncKilled doesn't work, apparently. See here.

[David93]

Yea your right the nazgul would probably jump in size,
hmm i dont know why it wouldnt work then :/
try the mod workshop they might know

Edit Withwnar seems to have got it

[Withwnar]

Withwnar seems to have got it

Yeah, I was looking at this condition myself the other day.

You might be able to make an alternative with a counter, PreBattle and PostBattle events and the WorldwideAncillaryExists condition. But there's always the risk that the Isengard general already has 8 ancillaries so he won't be able to receive it.

[David93]

Yeah, I was looking at this condition myself the other day.

You might be able to make an alternative with a counter, PreBattle and PostBattle events and the WorldwideAncillaryExists condition. But there's always the risk that the Isengard general already has 8 ancillaries so he won't be able to receive it.

true, you could script it as a "safety rope" that when it doesnt exist for two turns it generates in a random settlement, to show it being "lost" and found

[Adjudant-Major]

This "safety rope" already exists (with Hobbiton and Imladris); the whole thing might work with the WorldwideAncillaryExists condition:

Trigger one_ring_battletrigger
    WhenToTest PostBattle
    Condition WonBattle
      and IsGeneral
      and not I_EventCounter ring_destroyed > 0
      and not I_WorldwideAncillaryExists one_ring

    AcquireAncillary one_ring chance  100

I've added the possibility to stay in the Minas Morgul or the Black Gate regions for four turns to pass the Ring to Sauron, as ... one does not simply walk into Mordor, even if he is Ugluk

And, obviously, this is what happens when Frodo stays in Gorgoroth for 5 turns, and has the Ring :

monitor_conditions I_EventCounter ring_destroyed = 1

            console_command remove_ancillary Frodo one_ring
            console_command remove_ancillary Frodo gollum
            kill_character nazgula
            kill_character nazgulb
            kill_character nazgulc
            kill_character nazguld
            kill_character nazgule
            kill_character nazgulf
            kill_character nazgulg
            kill_character nazgulh
            kill_character nazguli
            kill_character Sauron
            console_command surrender_regions england

terminate_monitor
end_monitor

The immortal Nazgul get a condition "and not I_CompareCounter ring_destroyed = 1"

Is there a possibility to remove a building ? ...I would like to destroy the Barad Dur of course, by destroying the Ring. I haven't found any console command to do so.

I would also like to enable the other evil factions to help Sauron to recover the Ring. Actually the postbattle trigger might give the 100 chance only to the Mordor generals, a bit lower to Isengard, etc. There might be a general "ring bearer" spawn with the other evil factions, to try to bring the Ring to Mordor (only this unique servant would be able to do so). And only Frodo can destroy the Ring for the good factions. Should he join the other non-AI good factions to offer them this feature ? In the same way Aragorn joins Gondor... that means that when playing for Gondor, you might get Frodo spawn somewhere in Ithilien in 3019... but the same thing might work for Rohan, for the Elves.

I am not really sure how this might be managed by the AI... perhaps Frodo not existing, and a set of chosen regions taken, might do the work.

I also think this is not bad:

Ancillary gollum
    Type Follower
    Transferable  0 
    Image ZGolum.tga
    ExcludedAncillaries gollum, sauron_mace, staff_saruman
    Description gollum_desc
    EffectsDescription gollum_effects_desc
    Effect LocalPopularity  -1 
    Effect Unrest  2 
    Effect Piety  1
    Effect MovementPoints  5

[Withwnar]

Is there a possibility to remove a building ? ...I would like to destroy the Barad Dur of course, by destroying the Ring. I haven't found any console command to do so.

Yes and no. There is the destroy_building command but it destroys the entire building tree for that faction. Barad-dur is safe in vanilla TATW because it has its own tree - but in MOS for example it is part of a shared tree.

So for vanilla TATW you can just do...

destroy_buildings england barad false

...assuming Mordor owns it. Or just do...

destroy_buildings england barad false
destroy_buildings spain barad false
destroy_buildings sicily barad false
... and all other factions...

... to destroy it regardless of the current owner.

Trigger one_ring_battletrigger
    WhenToTest PostBattle
    Condition WonBattle
      and IsGeneral
      and not I_EventCounter ring_destroyed > 0
      and not I_WorldwideAncillaryExists one_ring

    AcquireAncillary one_ring chance  100

Two things here. I think you can't say [not something > 0]; you have to say [something == 0] instead. i.e. You can't use "not" in comparison conditions. Could be wrong.

This will give the ring to the first general who wins any battle in the campaign, so long as the ancillary doesn't yet exist and it hasn't been destroyed (both of which are unlikely in early game). Hmm, well the ring is found pretty early, so maybe this is what you intended. But it could mean the ring turning up some far corner of the map, when Harad fights rebels for example.

[FC Groningen]

What will happen to the faction Mordor if all/most family members are gone, including heir and faction leader?

[Dustindesrctin]

What will happen to the faction Mordor if all/most family members are gone, including heir and faction leader?

The Orcs will take over, the Orc generals that the AI always accepts I mean.

[FC Groningen]

The Orcs will take over, the Orc generals that the AI always accepts I mean.

Yeah, he mentioned that earlier. But I wonder if its possible to replace an entire family line for a new one. If not implented well, the entire faction will go rogue. If its possible to do this, then it should also be possible to replace any Gondorian faction leader with Aragorn, but I wonder if that is the case.

Edit: Also, there is the possibility that by event or chance, Mordor has no orc generals, which would still mean the end of the faction.

[Adjudant-Major]

Actually... no, Mordor was just gone when I tested it... maybe it's too much and too quick.

Edit: that might have been the case

[David93]

Why did you decide to make only frodo capable of destroying the ring?

[braindead01]

i would like to see this in game!
nice idea

[Gallus]

may I suggest adding the Cirith Ungol passage in the Morgul Vale? Otherwise Eriador must capture the Black Gate or Minas Morgul which is a bit unrealistic. And allies should be able to pass through the Black Gate. Also, if Saruman gets the Ring he should become an uber one man unit like Sauron.

[hahar]

may I suggest adding the Cirith Ungol passage in the Morgul Vale? Otherwise Eriador must capture the Black Gate or Minas Morgul which is a bit unrealistic. And allies should be able to pass through the Black Gate. Also, if Saruman gets the Ring he should become an uber one man unit like Sauron.

ofcourse he should! he is maiar as sauron-less powerfull but still maiar

[2-D Ron]

Saruman commanding the Nazgul if he has the Ring is entirely possible.

The Nazgul's fate was tied to the One Ring, as the 9 Rings of Men were bound to the One Rings Power "In the Darkness Bind them" Frodo didn't have the Wisdom to manipulate the Nazgul..

Galadriel explains to Frodo at Calas Galadhon(?) when he asks Galadrial how she has the power to read/communicate with peoples minds and he can only go invisable with the One Ring?
She explains that one would have to train their mind, as well as be as cruel and evil as Sauron to weild such power from the One Ring.
Only people that would have such ability to weild the One Ring to the point that they could control the Nazgul would be Sauron, Saruman, Elrond, Galadriel or Gandalf.. Oh and most likely Tom Bombadil, but Tom would just throw the Ring to the Ground; It wouldn't interest him.

[hahar]

Saruman commanding the Nazgul if he has the Ring is entirely possible.

The Nazgul's fate was tied to the One Ring, as the 9 Rings of Men were bound to the One Rings Power "In the Darkness Bind them" Frodo didn't have the Wisdom to manipulate the Nazgul..

Galadriel explains to Frodo at Calas Galadhon(?) when he asks Galadrial how she has the power to read/communicate with peoples minds and he can only go invisable with the One Ring?
She explains that one would have to train their mind, as well as be as cruel and evil as Sauron to weild such power from the One Ring.
Only people that would have such ability to weild the One Ring to the point that they could control the Nazgul would be Sauron, Saruman, Elrond, Galadriel or Gandalf.. Oh and most likely Tom Bombadil, but Tom would just throw the Ring to the Ground; It wouldn't interest him.

and I would like see this in campaign!