1390 map and late campaign

[Ichon]

Was Palma really that important in the 1400's ? Could it be left out to give way for other area slot ?

In my campaigns I really don't give a rats ass about Palma unless its a factions last stronghold. Rhodes, Crete and Cyprus should stay though.

Palma was not hugely important in itself but needed for crown of aragon. Rhodes won't be in. No knights of Rhodes faction as they were more an irritant than serious contender.

[daraca]

...All handguns...

Some technical information... from - Medieval handgonne.

"...This study, although flawed in many ways and making many
assumptions, suggests that handgonne power increased over time. The
15-inch ‘late 15th-century’ handgonne had more than 50 per cent greater
muzzle velocity than the 5-inch ‘14th-century’ handgonne. Furthermore,
the 5-inch handgonne failed to penetrate the steel in all of its five hits. The
10-inch handgonne (supposedly representing an early 15th-century model)
penetrated six times out of 14 hits, while the 15-inch handgonne
penetrated five times out of eight. Penetration with approximately half the
hits is better than even the most optimistic estimates of the effectiveness of
the longbow.
An incidental observation was that ramming the wadding and powder
proved very difficult unless the gonner set the stock rigidly on the ground,
suggesting one reason for the long stocks found in most handgonnes.
There has been only one experiment using actual period handgonnes,
but the weapons dated from the matchlock period. In 1988 and 1989 the
staff at the Landeszeughaus (provincial armoury) in Graz, Austria, fired 14
weapons dating from 1571 to the late 1700s, with roughly equal numbers
of weapons from the 16th, 17th and 18th century. Three were rifles and
the rest smoothbore muskets. A total of 325 shots were fired using modern
hunter’s black powder of 0.3–0.6mm grain. The size of the charge equalled
one-third of the ball weight.
The team tested only four firearms from the 16th century, the period
most relevant to this book: a heavy or ‘Spanish’ musket called a
Doppelhaken dating from 1571 (rifled wheel-lock, calibre 19.8mm),
another Doppelhaken from the 1580s (wheel-lock and matchlock, calibre
20.6mm), a wheel-lock musket from c.1595 (cal. 17.2mm), and a wheellock
musket from 1593 (cal. 12.3mm). These had respective average 70 muzzle velocities of 482, 533, 456, and 427m/s. Velocity tapered off quickly, however, as air resistance was heightened by imperfections in the lead balls. At 100m their velocities had gone down to 305, 349, 287, and 238m/s. Spheres have poor aerodynamics, and the slight irregularities of a lead ball exacerbates this. The firearms showed impressive penetrative ability. The calibre 19.8mm Doppelhaken pierced 2mm mild steel at 100m. The calibre 20.6 Doppelhaken pierced 4mm steel, the larger wheel-lock pierced 2mm steel, while the smaller wheel-lock pierced only 1mm of steel at the same range. Considering that a suit of armour would rarely be more than 3mm thick at its strongest point, and often half that thickness, the tests suggest that by the late 16th century, black powder weapons could kill a knight at short range..."

[David93]

looks very good mate

[Ichon]

Yes- similar to other research I have seen- although 100 meters is only considered short range by modern ideas. Since the best recurve bows had an effective killing range of 200 meters and a harassing range of 300-400 meters while longbows were around 160 meters killing range(aimed shots) while the harassing range was lower than eastern archers (300 meters) due to longer bows being less efficient at passing energy to the arrow and the longer and heavier arrows used by longbowmen.

The main idea is that type of gunpowder and length of the barrel were pivotal in range, power, and accuracy. The tighter the barrel to the ball the more accurate while also being slower to reload and easier to foul with powder and lead residue. Longer barrels increased accuracy and power as more of the force of the powder was transferred to the ball but also slowed reloading.

Basically I am aiming to create probably 5 to 7 types of gunpowder weapons. 3 to 4 rifles and 2 to 3 pistols.

The pistols will have only an early and late stage for cavalry and perhaps units of marines/corsairs. Early is not AP, very low range, but a morale shock and still has a chance to penetrate medium tier units armor. Late is AP but retains low range and relatively low accuracy and loses morale shock. Since the pistols will be such lower range I am thinking that they will retain decent accuracy but I am in the process of testing. It is easier to set their range lower and figure past that range they are so inaccurate that even aiming at a mass of men the shot is as likely to go low or high as hit anything. So in that short range being relatively accurate might be realistic.

I have already outlined the rifles in principal but right now I am thinking of something like this for the actual stats-

projectile hand_gun_bullet

effect bullet_model_set
end_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set
end_shatter_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_shatter_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_shatter_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set

damage 0
radius 0.001
mass 0.18
accuracy_vs_units 0.09
affected_by_rain
min_angle -80
max_angle 70
velocity 200 200
display aimed
effect_only


projectile quality_hand_gun_bullet

effect bullet_model_set
end_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set
end_shatter_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_shatter_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_shatter_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set

damage 0
radius 0.001
mass 0.16
accuracy_vs_units 0.0825
affected_by_rain
min_angle -80
max_angle 70
velocity 200 200
display aimed
effect_only


projectile early_arquebus_bullet

effect bullet_model_set
end_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set
end_shatter_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_shatter_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_shatter_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set

damage 0
radius 0.001
mass 0.14
accuracy_vs_units 0.0775
affected_by_rain
min_angle -80
max_angle 70
velocity 250 250
display aimed
effect_only


projectile quality_early_arquebus_bullet

effect bullet_model_set
end_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set
end_shatter_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_shatter_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_shatter_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set

damage 0
radius 0.001
mass 0.22
accuracy_vs_units 0.0655
affected_by_rain
min_angle -80
max_angle 70
velocity 350 350
display aimed
effect_only


projectile musket_bullet

effect bullet_model_set
end_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set
end_shatter_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_shatter_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_shatter_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set

damage 0
radius 0.001
mass 0.12
accuracy_vs_units 0.0725
affected_by_rain
min_angle -80
max_angle 70
velocity 450 450
display aimed
effect_only


projectile caliver_bullet

effect bullet_model_set
end_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set
end_shatter_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_shatter_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_shatter_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set

damage 0
radius 0.001
mass 0.17
accuracy_vs_units 0.06
affected_by_rain
min_angle -80
max_angle 70
velocity 425 425
display aimed
effect_only


projectile quality_pistol_bullet

effect bullet_model_set
end_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set
end_shatter_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_shatter_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_shatter_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set

damage 0
radius 0.001
mass 0.09
accuracy_vs_units 0.07
affected_by_rain
min_angle -80
max_angle 70
velocity 300
display aimed
effect_only


projectile quality_early_pistol_bullet

effect bullet_model_set
end_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set
end_shatter_effect bullet_impact_ground_set
end_shatter_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_shatter_package_effect bullet_impact_wall_set

damage 0
radius 0.001
mass 0.1
accuracy_vs_units 0.0775
affected_by_rain
min_angle -80
max_angle 70
velocity 300
display aimed
effect_only



The early handguns will not be much different from how they are currently in game except removed AP, slightly less accurate, bit lower range, and cost is raised.

Next level would be early arquebus with AP added but range not hugely increased range over handguns as despite better powder and longer barrels the construction of guns still varies widely as does powder quality. Since accuracy is increased compared to handguns- I wish there were ways to modify accuracy over distance but since that still seems somewhat a mystery reading modding forums I am just going to lower range in most cases where aimed accuracy becomes questionable. LOS and other factors make a bigger impact for flat trajectory missiles anyway. These guys will wear slightly lighter armor than handgunners but still be equipped to join in melee if the lines close. Cost remains higher per man than equivalent bow missile units but unit size decreased a bit.

The final level of arquebus will have the longest range of anything except cantilever/flintlock which appears rather late in timeline- AP, relatively good accuracy but still less than most bows or crossbows, fires the largest balls but is slow moving and very slow reloading. These guys are specialist marksmen and wear light armor and don't have much to resort to in melee. Cost is quite high. Unit size the smallest of all handgun units and the most expensive.

Musket units will see reduction in ball size, much faster reload, very little to no armor, accuracy lower than arquebus and lower range with looser and shorter barrel lengths. Units will have a slight movement speed bonus compared to armored unit and cost will be the first gun units that come lower than professional bow units.

For pistols right now I don't think alot will change for the reiters etc other than a bit lower range but increased accuracy at that lower range. These guys will have to ride in close but be relatively lethal- still equipped to mix it up in melee but not as heavy cavalry- more medium cavalry.

Later versions will simply have a bit more powerful and accurate of guns while decreasing in cost but also becoming more light cavalry.

I am considering a couple corsair/marine style units that use pistols for Spanish, Italians and Hafsids. Not sure how that would look yet- should be relatively rare but there are enough battles where ships men fought ashore that I think including a couple of these units will be fun. Probably very low armor, medium cost, ferocious attack (ship battles were usually more bloody than land battles with losers unable to retreat in most situations).



Cantilever or late in the timeline flintlocks might be available. Probably relatively rare and a combination of late arquebus power and range with muskets faster reloads and movement bonus. Also probably the longest range for any mounted gun units but still less accuracy than arquebus due to short barrels.


For bow units- few changes to eastern bow abilities though I think more of the easterners will function as medium cavalry with decent bow skills and some ability to mix it up in melee. I think there is too sharp a divide now with many HA being very weak in melee. Probably to make up for that elite bowmen will become rarer in Persia and Ottomans in later eras but remain for Golden Horde.

Western bowmen I probably will change the most- retinue longbowmen I will make similar to the frontline of Agincourt- lower range but powerful aimed shots, slower reload due to that but some armor along with AP mauls/hammers, etc to remain capable in melee- medium infantry. Raised cost a bit reduced availability. The rest of longbows will be volley fire, current RC missile system probably apply with few changes other than slight reduction in attack stat but increase in range and reduction in availability.

Other factions bowmen will mostly get increased range but reduced effectiveness with most bowmen having a slightly better chance in melee combat but still functioning as light infantry.

Crossbowmen- reduce availability of militia crossbowmen and raise cost slightly. Upper tier crossbowmen will get mostly reduced range but a bit higher attack and accuracy with higher cost. More often than bowmen they will retain armor and melee capabilities of medium infantry. Crossbowmen added to most eastern rosters as well. Probably have a single version of long range crossbowmen in each faction that have reduced attack and accuracy at the longer range which still falls short of best recurves but matches longbows. Basically should give an option to have a unit with more chance of overcoming later armor values than many bowmen aside from retinue but with slower reload. Might tweak angles a bit to have a few more of these guys fire from walls but not enough the whole unit can- that will require testing as from what I've seen so far the angles have to be drastically altered for much difference and I am not sure I want to do that.

[ShockBlast]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Mate Tarnovo is in the middle of Bulgaria not above the Danube all the way in Wallachia.The Danube formed the border between Wallachia and Bulgaria.

Need any help with the Wallachian roster?How many unique units you plan on letting them have ?

[Ichon]

Hmm... Tarnovo does not look that far off actually. The problem is the Danube should not be that far south. Also Sofia is a bit too far north- Tarnovo could move a couple tiles south while Sofia moves several tiles and Danube is drawn further north.

I want Wallachia to have one of the most unique rosters but initially in phase 1 it will probably only get 2 or 3 unique units. In phase 2 I'll spend alot more time and maybe able to recruit someone or borrow much better models for a more complete Wallachian roster.

[Ichon]

Maybe this is better? I'll probably redo this whole map as the borders need adjusted and I think drop Varad as a PSF eventually but that is all I have time for today.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[ShockBlast]

Maybe this is better? I'll probably redo this whole map as the borders need adjusted and I think drop Varad as a PSF eventually but that is all I have time for today.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Much better but if you want you could drag Tarnovo just a little bit more down but it's much better now.
You could have a PSF down on the Danube for Wallachia,it could represent one of the Wallachian fortifications guarding the Danube,Bucharest was a rising city not a well known fortification.

Keep up the good work.

[Ichon]

In 1390 Bucharest doesn't seem to have been much. Maybe a small castle. It wasn't until 100 years later that it could really be called anything close to a city. Is there a big castle that could represent a PSF? I was hoping Bucharest would be close enough to control the crossing over the Danube but it might be a couple tiles too far away. Also due to Bucharest's later importance.

Wallachian roster I will base partly on what was described in the Battle of Posada and the later battles with the Ottomans. Lots of cavalry, foot archers, and possibly some specialists skirmishers I am still testing giving the hide ability to most skirmishers.

[ShockBlast]

In 1390 Bucharest doesn't seem to have been much. Maybe a small castle. It wasn't until 100 years later that it could really be called anything close to a city. Is there a big castle that could represent a PSF? I was hoping Bucharest would be close enough to control the crossing over the Danube but it might be a couple tiles too far away. Also due to Bucharest's later importance.

There were a few castles guarding the Danube so you can put one there to guard the crossing between Wallachia and Bulgaria.

Wallachian roster I will base partly on what was described in the Battle of Posada and the later battles with the Ottomans. Lots of cavalry, foot archers, and possibly some specialists skirmishers I am still testing giving the hide ability to most skirmishers.

I can help you with the roster,i've read RD's research.
The primary weapon was the composite bow but the crossbow was used a lot of time because the Hungarians used a lot of armour.Later when the Ottomans become a bigger threat the crossbow decreased in use and the use of the composite bow increased.

Spearmen , 1 handed and two handed spears.

Calvalry was limited and most of it was light, formed of lancers and horse archers.The heavy cavalry role were played by the boyars and their retinue.

And let's not forget about the romanian speciality, the spiked club.
Here is a scene from a historical movie,the Voievod tests the shephard and his club fighting skills and then orders him to form a warband of warriors wielding spiked clubs.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Some photos : http://www.twcenter.net/forums/album...id=4787&page=2 , http://www.twcenter.net/forums/album...ictureid=49951
Can i start thinking about a roster?

[Ichon]

Actually I was thinking about a 2 handed club/mace unit for phase 2 but since I don't want to mess much with animations or graphics in phase 1 it seemed hard to create and would look odd reusing some other polearm or 2 handed axes. By lots of cavalry I meant more light cavalry- boyars would be more like current Kiev... maybe slightly faster speed but not as high armor as westerners but I would like to slow heavy cavalry down more in line with ERE Scholari speeds. So then fastest speed medium/heavy cavalry would have some advantages even if not having the best armor. Crossbows will probably be in early eras but phase out later replaced by composite and gunpowder. Influence of Cumans and Mongols will have more composite bows early and continue to spread due to contact with Ottomans. I think Wallachians will have many duel units- with both bows and capable of some melee fighting. Very few specialists including heavy infantry/archers/cavalry. Maybe 1 heavy cavalry specialist and no heavily armored heavy infantry specialists.

I'd be happy for any ideas though...

Right now I am looking at giving most skirmishers hide ability but probably shrink the unit size of skirmishers a bit and most skirmishers will have some melee ability.

[ShockBlast]

Actually I was thinking about a 2 handed club/mace unit for phase 2 but since I don't want to mess much with animations or graphics in phase 1 it seemed hard to create and would look odd reusing some other polearm or 2 handed axes. By lots of cavalry I meant more light cavalry- boyars would be more like current Kiev... maybe slightly faster speed but not as high armor as westerners but I would like to slow heavy cavalry down more in line with ERE Scholari speeds. So then fastest speed medium/heavy cavalry would have some advantages even if not having the best armor. Crossbows will probably be in early eras but phase out later replaced by composite and gunpowder. Influence of Cumans and Mongols will have more composite bows early and continue to spread due to contact with Ottomans. I think Wallachians will have many duel units- with both bows and capable of some melee fighting. Very few specialists including heavy infantry/archers/cavalry. Maybe 1 heavy cavalry specialist and no heavily armored heavy infantry specialists.

I'd be happy for any ideas though...

Right now I am looking at giving most skirmishers hide ability but probably shrink the unit size of skirmishers a bit and most skirmishers will have some melee ability.

Wow just wow,you really know a lot about Wallachia.

Ok this my idea of an Wallachian roster.

City Barracks :
1)Spear Militia
2)Archer Militia
3)Calvalry Militia
4)Generic Eastern musket unit or specific - not good at those units.

Castle Barracks :
1) Wallachian Infantry - light spearmen ,good stamina ,can hide in the forest ,no armour ,upg leather

2) Wallachian Scouts - light infantry/archer with axe,shield and a normal bow,good stamina , can hide anywhere , no armour , upg leather - should be treated as infantry with a bow.

3)Maciucari (two handed macemen) - light/medium infantry with two handed spiked mace (say bye bye to your amour ) , can hide in the forest , good morale , very good stamina , light mail , upg. heavy mail/lamelar

4)Mosneni Infantry - medium infantry/crossbowmen with a sword,large shield and a crossbow , good morale , good stamina , light mail , upg heavy mail/lamelar(slavic style)

5)Generic two handed spearmen(Serbia might need one of those also so the two factions can share it) - good stamina , good morale , heavy chain/lamelar , upg to heavy lamelar ??

6)Dismounted Armoured Boyars - heavy infantry , very good morale, good stamina , partial plate , upg full plate - the eastern boyars don't wear plate but Serbia sure did use it so this unit can be shared with Serbia

7)Voivode's Guardsmen - heavy infantry , halebard ,very good morale , very good stamina ,partial plate , upg full plate - this unit really existed,it was created by Vlad the Impaler to counteract the influence of the boyars.It was the only professional , non-mercenary , full time soldier in the Wallachian army.This unit really fits in,it's a shock unit that will deliver the final bow to the enemy after the shower of arrows.

8)Lumbermen - generic unit,forgot about this one and can fit in.

Archer Range

1)Peasant Archers - generic

2)Wallachian Hunters - composite bow , no shield ,second weapon - axe , very good stamina ,can hide everywhere , no armour , upg to leather - this unit alongside the scouts should represent the wallachian forces who ambush the enemy everywhere so i suggest this unit to have a lower range but a bigger damage and/or AP,it come out of nowhere and hit very hard but it can be killed just as fast

3)Mosneni Archers - composite bow + small shield, second weapon - two handed spear, good stamina , leather , upg to light mail , can use stakes

4)Curtenii Archers - composite pow + big shield , second weapon sword , good stamina , good morale , ca use spikes , light mail , upg to heavy mail/lamelar , can use stakes - should be thread like a dual unit who excels in ranged combat

Stables

1)Generic Horse Archer or specific unit : Calarasii Archers - composite bow + small shield , second weapon - axe , very good stamina , leather , upg light mail

2)Curtenii Lancers - lance for charges , sabre + big shield for melee , very good stamina , good morale , leather , upg light chainmail

3) Vitejii Calvalry - composite bow , sword + big shield , good stamina , good morale , light mail , upg heavy mail/lamelar

4) Armoured Boyars - lance , sword + shield , good stamina , very good morale , partial plate , upg. full plate - as i've said this could be shared with Serbia

Damn you where right when you said you will need slots for Wallachia.

So what do you think ?

[Alesianduke]

About Wallachian troops... as far as I know the main body of a wallachian army consisted of: peasants and shepherds (also gypsies) armed with axes or scythes (what ever weapon they could get their hands on and which they used for working the fields, because they could not afford swords - but they had a strong morale) and alongside there fought the nobles private army which had also some cavalry, armed with lances, swords, daggers and which wore chainmail armour.
Also I know most of the rulers of Wallachia (written sources stated that at least from the 1420s) had a personal guard which was formed out of mercenaries (mostly from Hungary - heavy cavalry and infantry) - but not many, in the hundreds.

Some other troops that you can add as mercenaries inside the borders of Wallachia could be: Pechenegs, maybe some central european ones because the Pope supported the existence of a buffer state between the Ottomans and Christendom and some Teutonic Order (German troops) because from 1211 to 1225 and 1429 to 1432 there were troops of the Teutonic Order stationed there (Tara Barsei or Burzenland).

I also read that according to some chronicles Wallachia had some crossbowmen and all the shields of the army were made out of wood and covered with leather. About artillery it had some bombards and cannons (of course some firearms - 1 type of unit maybe).

All this I know from what I read and from a pretty good description of the army during Mircea the Elder's time (1355-1418).

Hope this helps a bit!

p.s. on wikipedia (romanian version) there is a nice description of culture, relations with foreign countries (especially Hungary and the Papacy), Wallachia's seal during Mircea's rule and coat of arms, administration etc.

[ShockBlast]

About Wallachian troops... as far as I know the main body of a wallachian army consisted of: peasants and shepherds (also gypsies) armed with axes or scythes (what ever weapon they could get their hands on and which they used for working the fields, because they could not afford swords - but they had a strong morale) and alongside there fought the nobles private army which had also some cavalry, armed with lances, swords, daggers and which wore chainmail armour.
Also I know most of the rulers of Wallachia (written sources stated that at least from the 1420s) had a personal guard which was formed out of mercenaries (mostly from Hungary - heavy cavalry and infantry) - but not many, in the hundreds.

Some other troops that you can add as mercenaries inside the borders of Wallachia could be: Pechenegs, maybe some central european ones because the Pope supported the existence of a buffer state between the Ottomans and Christendom and some Teutonic Order (German troops) because from 1211 to 1225 and 1429 to 1432 there were troops of the Teutonic Order stationed there (Tara Barsei or Burzenland).

I also read that according to some chronicles Wallachia had some crossbowmen and all the shields of the army were made out of wood and covered with leather. About artillery it had some bombards and cannons (of course some firearms - 1 type of unit maybe).

All this I know from what I read and from a pretty good description of the army during Mircea the Elder's time (1355-1418).

Hope this helps a bit!

p.s. on wikipedia (romanian version) there is a nice description of culture, relations with foreign countries (especially Hungary and the Papacy), Wallachia's seal during Mircea's rule and coat of arms, administration etc.

You honestly think that a bunch of peasants and shephards (ok this is getting old ,the wallachians were a settled people,we had shephards but that wasn't the main ocupation by far)with skythes and axes defeated superior Hungarian and Ottomans armies ?

Also the gypsies didn't fight,they were house slaves not fighters.

The units i'ved suggested are based on the research of a geek who eats Romanian history for breakfest.

[Caesar Clivus]

The units i'ved suggested are based on the research of a geek who eats Romanian history for breakfest.

He'd be better off reading it. Ingesting written text is not an efficient way of learning

[Ichon]

I think the idea of shepherds composing Wallachian armies is from the anecdotes of Wallachians enemies mostly-though I wouldn't be surprised if some shepherds were actually good fighters having to defend their herds from not only animals but Cumans/Tartars. Really I agree with Shockblast that is seems very unlikely that Wallachians were able to defeat Ottoman armies that had defeated other powerful armies with only shepherds.

Re: Shockblast roster suggestions-

Many of those I was already thinking about but the names are helpful, I am thinking of disabling most of normal militia roster for Wallachia so player uses the more unique units and also to limit unit availability a bit. Have to see how that would work for AI though.

I think I am going to try something different than the Wallachian Infantry and Wallachian Scouts but otherwise that roster seems close to what I had envisioned.

[Alesianduke]

What I was trying to say with the first paragraph was that the Wallachian army was made out of 2 bodies (let's say sub-armies): the Grand Army (peasants) and the Small Army (nobles with their private armies)... the first was the militia and second professional army to say so.
I did not want to suggest that all the Wallachian army was made out of shepherds... I just stated that the Grand Army (or "Oastea cea Mare" - romanian) had some of those too, because when the Ottomans crossed into Wallachia everyone was mobilized.

p.s. although I don't eat my nation's history for breakfast all I said so far are from, let's say personal experience with historical movies and books.

[ShockBlast]

He'd be better off reading it. Ingesting written text is not an efficient way of learning

Good one matey.

I think the idea of shepherds composing Wallachian armies is from the anecdotes of Wallachians enemies mostly-though I wouldn't be surprised if some shepherds were actually good fighters having to defend their herds from not only animals but Cumans/Tartars. Really I agree with Shockblast that is seems very unlikely that Wallachians were able to defeat Ottoman armies that had defeated other powerful armies with only shepherds.

The shephards could have joined the Maciucarii or the archer units.Since they had to defend their heards they had to be strong arm and/or a good aim with the bow.In the short youtube video the Voievode asks a shephard to form the Maciucarii unit.

Re: Shockblast roster suggestions-

Many of those I was already thinking about but the names are helpful, I am thinking of disabling most of normal militia roster for Wallachia so player uses the more unique units and also to limit unit availability a bit. Have to see how that would work for AI though.

I think I am going to try something different than the Wallachian Infantry and Wallachian Scouts but otherwise that roster seems close to what I had envisioned.

I am pleased to hear that you like it,I can also provide descriptions for those units.

About the Voievode's Guardsmen, when i said halebard i was refearing to a shorter halebard or poleaxe,envision the unit as a heavy armoured Ottoman Infantry unit.

I can help you with a pictures.Except the traditional cloths that would have been worn by the unarmoured units, the biggest part of the army can be made easily because they looked simmilar with Medieval Romans and Slavs.The professionals and Boyars looks more like their western counterparts.You can easily make them by playing with the skins we have in SS.

Ah i am so pleased that you will lower the rate of replenishment for heavy units.I don't know about RR versions but normal versions are boring in late game.Fighting an army made of 40% DFK and Dismounted Chivalric Knights , 40% FK and Chivalric Knights and 10% other in not fun.I know that the western factions had plate and all but those plated units couldn't make more then 50% of the actual army,in my opinion anyway.

What I was trying to say with the first paragraph was that the Wallachian army was made out of 2 bodies (let's say sub-armies): the Grand Army (peasants) and the Small Army (nobles with their private armies)... the first was the militia and second professional army to say so.
I did not want to suggest that all the Wallachian army was made out of shepherds... I just stated that the Grand Army (or "Oastea cea Mare" - romanian) had some of those too, because when the Ottomans crossed into Wallachia everyone was mobilized.

p.s. although I don't eat my nation's history for breakfast all I said so far are from, let's say personal experience with historical movies and books.

Sorry for being edgy brother,it's not like we discuss army composition in the history class.

The Grand Army(Oastea Mare) wasn't made up by simple farmers and shephards only.Yes we had the peasants who were bound to the land and were forced to fight but there was another kind of peasants, the land owning peasants( mosneni ) who made up the biggest part.They lived in a comune and the comune itself had to be able to raise up a certin number of trained troops and since they owned the land they could afford some protection(leather , light chain , lamelar ) and decent weapons,the equipment was owned by the community itself.

Our movies provide a more romanitc view of the Wallachian armies and sometimes wrong.I haven't seen massive number of archers showering the enemies with arrows but people in traditional cloths who fight with a huge bent branch that should represent a spear.

[Wallachian]

Great research ShockBlast, I see that the Wallachian roster is in good hands. Certainly agree that some of the historical movies provide a romantic view of the army mainly for political reasons. That being said they are a great source for information when it comes to costumes and the likes.

If you need some visual inspiration feel free to use all the pictures in my albums here and here as reference.

[Ichon]

So far I am fairly certain that giving most skirmishers hide ability seems to be working well where some otherwise only light infantry skirmishers can be used by players fairly well. For the auto calc though these sorts of armies have penalties vs other AI so far. I'm thinking of making many skirmishers archers even if primarily melee infantry to get that as auto calc bonus but just give them less ammo so the archer doesn't use them primarily as archers. Probably only 5 arrows. Then less armor but decent melee skills though I am not sure how many will get AP weapons.