Spartan Campaign

[warsawabruce]

I've been playing as the spartans for almost 80 years. When the game starts i have 1 spartan hoplite and 1 skiritai. I was able to retrain these units in the city of sparta and after expanding the empire i was handed 1 unit extra of both of the above. My question is, will there come a time where i can recruit them myself?
Tried to search the forums without any luck, so sorry if the question has already been answered

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

^In short: no.

This is to prevent them from being spammed all over the place. You see, there was always a set amount of Spartiatai and Skiritai, and that number did not grow exponentionally compared to the size of the Spartan "Empire" like it'd do when you'd be able to recruit it yourself.

[DukeCanada]

Historically Spartans only came from Sparta, and so we want to represent this accurately. We also want to reduce the spam of elite units in RTR. Also, your generals serve as Spartans anyways, so you can always use them the same way you would a regular Spartan unit.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Just and enquiry, is the Spartans are really that uber during Roman era which RTR represented ? Any historical reference besides those happened ages before (those 300 era) ?

[MasterOfThessus]

Nope, the spartans we have are more a wink to the fans

[AngryTitusPullo]

Nope, the spartans we have are more a wink to the fans

That's what I figure...

[DukeCanada]

The gap between the Spartans and the regular Greeks was still rather large, but not so large as it was during the prime of Sparta. If you research the Cleomenean war, you will notce that at one point the Achaeans chose not to fight the Spartans even though they had a 4-1 numerical advantage. However, you must remember that Cleomenes III made some radical changes to the Spartan class. He admitted thousands of new members into their ranks, and even incorporated the phalanx into the Spartan military. Before Cleomenes the Spartan class (from which Spartans we're trained and recruited) was incredibly depleted.

So its history accurate to say that the Spartans we're still very powerful and feared, but they didnt command the same numbers of strength they had in previous generations.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Were they feared during that time (Roman era) because of their actual fighting ability or because of their legend ?

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

They were always feared because of their legend. It's not like the hoplite system gave much room to tactics (and the amount of muscles a man can have only goes so far, so superior training wasn't all that important, I think), unless one uses missile troops and cavalry.


When you think about it, they were overrated even then

[DukeCanada]

They were always feared because of their legend. It's not like the hoplite system gave much room to tactics (and the amount of muscles a man can have only goes so far, so superior training wasn't all that important, I think), unless one uses missile troops and cavalry.


When you think about it, they were overrated even then

I'd have to argue with that, most troops recruited during those times didnt have military experience, where the Spartans did. It may not be muscle or size that made the Spartans a force to be reckoned with, instead it was knowledge, instinct and ability.

Also, the hoplite system worked well on open fields and flat land. It didnt work well in rugged terrain, also the Roman manipular system worked in such a way to keep ranks fresh and wear down the enemy. Also, the Romans had so much manpower that they could easily overrun their enemies in Greece. These are the primary reasons why Greece lost to the Romans.

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

most troops recruited during those times didnt have military experience

Most troops = hoplites. Hoplites = wealthy citizens that didn't need to work and thus could train all day. I don't think that just involved push-ups. They probably sparred quite a bit too. While I agree that the Spartans had experience in actual combat before they saw, eh, combat, I don't think the difference between them and the other states in battle was all that large. I think their discipline was their main "selling point".

I wasn't saying that the Spartans weren't better than the other Greeks, I was just saying that their reputation was a very big factor, and not just their prowess in combat (which was easily destroyed by the Thebans who actually used more complex tactics).

Also, the hoplite system worked well on open fields and flat land. It didnt work well in rugged terrain, also the Roman manipular system worked in such a way to keep ranks fresh and wear down the enemy. Also, the Romans had so much manpower that they could easily overrun their enemies in Greece. These are the primary reasons why Greece lost to the Romans.

Yeah; did I contradict that anywhere?

[carthages hope]

1st day of release, and we already have the beginings of a wonderful Faction argument I love you RTR team, you make my weetbix taste that much better.

[DukeCanada]

Most troops = hoplites. Hoplites = wealthy citizens that didn't need to work and thus could train all day. I don't think that just involved push-ups. They probably sparred quite a bit too. While I agree that the Spartans had experience in actual combat before they saw, eh, combat, I don't think the difference between them and the other states in battle was all that large. I think their discipline was their main "selling point".

I wasn't saying that the Spartans weren't better than the other Greeks, I was just saying that their reputation was a very big factor, and not just their prowess in combat (which was easily destroyed by the Thebans who actually used more complex tactics).

Yeah; did I contradict that anywhere?

See, thats where I'm a bit lost. There are numerous reports of Greek armies wishing to return home in time for harvest and work. While sparing may have been some sort of pastime in other regions of Greece, I dont think they could compare to the Spartan training system.

I think you could compare the Spartans of this time, to the Spartans in their prime(in terms of skill). The only difference being numbers and resources.

Now, the discrepancy between the other Greeks and the Spartans may not have been as large as it was during the Persian wars, but it was still significant.

1st day of release, and we already have the beginings of a wonderful Faction argument I love you RTR team, you make my weetbix taste that much better.

Haha, this is no argument, just friendly banter .

[MasterOfThessus]

Haha, this is no argument, just friendly banter .

you should see the in-house discussions, now that's heated

Try asking Tones about leafes

[Maurits]

And pillars. Don't forget the pillars, MoTtie!

[Mr Kami]

"The Spartans are the equal of any men when they fight as individuals; fighting together as a collective, they surpass all other men." Damaratus to Xerxes.
To my knowledge the Spartans was not of any remarkable individual fighting skill compared to any other Greek of their time they where however extremely strong together and most of them shared brotherly bonds wich made them even more effective as a unit.
That combined with the fact that they did not fear death but welcomed it in the service of Sparta made them a force to be reckoned with.
As the saying goes,a man that does not fear death can not be defeated.

[AngryTitusPullo]

"The Spartans are the equal of any men when they fight as individuals; fighting together as a collective, they surpass all other men." Damaratus to Xerxes.
To my knowledge the Spartans was not of any remarkable individual fighting skill compared to any other Greek of their time they where however extremely strong together and most of them shared brotherly bonds wich made them even more effective as a unit.
That combined with the fact that they did not fear death but welcomed it in the service of Sparta made them a force to be reckoned with.
As the saying goes,a man that does not fear death can not be defeated.

The question is are those Spartans in 280 BC the same stock with those 100-200 years earlier..

[Mr Kami]

Yeah that is the question isn't it

[DukeCanada]

Oh lord...

[Tony83]

Pillars! Who mentioned poncy vine clad pillars?

The Spartans certainly do stir the passions don't they!

Reputation and actual fighting ability go hand in glove when it comes to the effect a unit may have on the battlefield. For example, Napoleon's Old Guard would often only have to advance and often the enemy would just melt away in front them, without them having to fire a shot, so much awe and fear did they install; and the same could be said of the Spartans. Their mere presence on the battlefield would often demoralise a foe so much that the outcome of the battle was a foregone conclusion.

I'm currently reading a history on their strategy and battle tactics, and it is clear that they were well aware of the effect that had and were not averse to promoting it as much as they could. For example, if an enemy broke and ran form them before contact was made, they would typically let them go without pursuit or molestation. On the other hand, if the enemy stood and fought, the Spartans would try and slaughter as many as they could. Thus they hoped to persuade potential foes that flight was obviously the better option.

Another fact I have gleaned is that the Spartiate were trained not to adopt the usual hoplite tactic of a last minute pell-mell charge into contact but rather kept to an ordered advance into melee. Thus they sacrificed an element of impact in favour of an unbroken line, denying the enemy the opportunities of dashing into gaps.

The Spartans could be beaten in battle, and their numbers were never that high, furthermore, strategically and tactically, they tended to be very conservative. However, Agoge training afforded them an incredible advantage.

... Also where is the Sparta preview? I am interested in this mod from the front page announcement but I only play Sparta/300/Protonazis as my favourite faction, so I need to know what sort of work has been done on them.

EDIT: I suggest previews be stickied.

Our previews are stickied. Check out the Important Information - Everything You wanted to Know thread.