A question on the Templars, Hospitallers, and Teutonic Knights...

**Banzai!!!** · September 01, 2011, 05:52 PM

I realise that these were orders that were seperate from kings and queens and were ruled by there own grandmasters but did these knightly orders represent the different countries of that period in reality e.g.

Did The Templars represent English Knights and have English Knights

Hospitallers French Knights and have French Knights

And Teutonic German Knights etc?

Also I heard that as well as Templars and Hospitallers being in the crusades at the time the teutonic Knights were also present too there in the middleast and so is this true?

Also if it is true would these Teutnoc Knights be wearing the same types of armour and helmets that we see are used when they fought in Eastern Europe?

Thx if are able to answer my questions

**AJStoner** · September 01, 2011, 06:09 PM

Nationalism, in the sense we would understand the word today, didn't really exist in the middle ages. Orders of knighthood were either sworn to a certain crown or, in the case of the examples you have given above, were monastic orders. The Teutonic knights were, essentially Germanic and the Knights of Santiago were Iberian but the Hospitallers and Templars were not especially associated with any region.

The Templars were a power in their own right, controlling territory all over Europe and the Middle East. They were richer and more militarily powerful then most kings--this is one of the main reasons they were ultimately destroyed. Every monarch was up to their eyeballs in debt to them and Rome was starting to feel a little intimidated themselves which is why they turned a blind eye to the absurd charges leveled against them. The church doubtless got a nice cut of whatever the local kings confiscated once the Templars were dissolved as well.

**diez** · September 01, 2011, 06:09 PM

the templars were mix,but a bit more french from what i know and hospitallers mixed...teutonics were germans right,so the warfare of these order was mixed,but templars and hospitallers had more "there own style"while teutons,was a mix between templars(were they started off)and of course germans...they started in the middle east,and continued in having a small area in hungary to push away the magyars(i think) and other enemies.later they went to baltic region,but were in middle east too.when holy land was lost,they focused on the baltic,were they became famous fighting lithuanians and prussians.

EDIT:Also if it is true would these Teutnoc Knights be wearing the same types of armour and helmets that we see are used when they fought in Eastern Europe?

no...their equipment was mostly like holy roman empire,the helmets after a certain era were different,and in late era they were armed with full plates,gothic armors etc

to see their equipment and their history(not only teutons but hospitallers,and templars too)i strongly suggest you the books of osprey publishing...they have detailed pictures with equipment,and very detailed info on everything about them...

2nd edit:here are links for the book above

Teutons
Templars
Hospitallers 1
Hospitallers 2
lol i accidentaly found them in google for free download in pdf form

**The Mouth** · September 01, 2011, 06:13 PM

The orders didn't necessarily represent an entire country I mean there could be french English and German in a single Templar army. And I know the Teutonics originated in Jerusalem but I'm not sure if they looked the same as they did around the Baltic or not.

**diez** · September 01, 2011, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by The Mouth

The orders didn't necessarily represent an entire country I mean there could be french English and German in a single Templar army.

i agree i was just talking about their initial origins...btw "templar army" or knight army did not exist,knights were only a small part of an army,since they were not vast in number but very expensive also

**Banzai!!!** · September 01, 2011, 06:34 PM

Thx for the information guys and thx diez for the free books

and feel free anyone to answer my questions furthermore if u believe things have been missed out

**diez** · September 01, 2011, 06:35 PM

pleasure to help

btw the links i gave u are the official links...u just need to copy paste the title in google and add .pdf to find em

**Charles V** · September 01, 2011, 07:03 PM

Ahhhhh the knights of god... or so to speak. they were all one and one for all. They fought for god ( NOT AT ALL ) slayed in gods name ( Just murdered more like it ) and all got hung in the end. And yes all nationalties were in these groups. But in the Tetunic order there were alot more Germans. The templars were the most powerful I think.

**Doge Domenico** · September 01, 2011, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Charles V

Ahhhhh the knights of god... or so to speak. they were all one and one for all. They fought for god ( NOT AT ALL ) slayed in gods name ( Just murdered more like it ) and all got hung in the end. And yes all nationalties were in these groups. But in the Tetunic order there were alot more Germans. The templars were the most powerful I think.

U mad bro?

@OP The game represents them as accurately as possible at the time.
Only that in reality they wouldn't fight christian soldiers and were mainly used against pagans and muslims. The hospitallier still exsist today. The templars were destroyed by the French and the pope.

**=Bright=** · September 02, 2011, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by Charles V

The templars were the most powerful I think.

According to Assassin's Creed they still are!

@OP: Yes, the origins of the Teutonic Order lay in the Kingdom of Jerusalem, though thier first headquarter was Acre and they soon had to leave the Holy Lands anyways.

**eXistenZ** · September 02, 2011, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by =Bright=

According to Assassin's Creed they still are!

you're gonna get a little visit from abstergo tonight :p

**=Bright=** · September 02, 2011, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by eXistenZ

you're gonna get a little visit from abstergo tonight :p

mhmm... Maybe they let me try out the Anim... hold on, somebody's at the door.

**Donkeycow** · September 01, 2011, 09:09 PM

No, they were not bound to a nation in anyway. The majority of the Templars and the Knights of St. John happened to be French, and the majority of the Teutonic Order was German, but that was just simply the way it was, they were not done as acts of nationalism or created by nation states, they were created to simply protect the holy land from re-conquest.

**Aeratus** · September 01, 2011, 09:19 PM

The Knights Templars had members from Spain, to Scotland, to Hungary. They were literally all over the place, and not bound to any King.

The Teutonic Knights were the most "nationalist", but that isn't quite the right term because the Holy Roman Empire didn't consider themselves to be a unified nation. The Teutonic Knights were not only Germans, but had other nationals such as Estonians.

**diez** · September 02, 2011, 04:10 AM

yeah hospies and templies were international...but teutons had a connection with hre,especially when they started operation in the baltic region...they were not financialy independent from the start...hre also send em some times soldies,weapons,supplys...and many nobles(germans mostly) took part in baltic crusades,and campaigns

btw only the templars were hunged,teutons dissolved by the pope when lithuanians and prussians became christian,while hospitallers still exist today,not in the way they did of course

**=Bright=** · September 02, 2011, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by diez

btw only the templars were hunged,teutons dissolved by the pope when lithuanians and prussians became christian,while hospitallers still exist today,not in the way they did of course

Actually the Teutonic Order still exists today as a charitable organization. But after the devastating defeat at the Battle of Grunwald they gradually lost thier military power and thier lands.