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  1. #1

    Default Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Luckily, Garb posted something for this thread to exist! - imb39

    This post is nothing if not cryptic, so I'll re-post Garb's explenation (thanks Garb) for clarity -TBN


    Bush Approved Iraq Intelligence Leak, Libby Testified

    April 6 (Bloomberg) -- President George W. Bush authorized disclosure of classified information on Iraq's weapons program to rebut war critics, a former top administration aide told a grand jury, according to documents filed in federal court.

    The documents filed by special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald don't allege the president authorized aides to divulge the identity of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame, whose naming in a July 2003 newspaper column prompted a Justice Department investigation. The court papers also don't suggest Bush violated any rule or law governing the handling of classified material.

    The document describes federal grand jury testimony by Vice President Dick Cheney's former Chief of Staff I. Lewis Libby, who was indicted last October of charges of perjury, obstruction of justice and lying to FBI agents investigating the Plame case. Libby has pleaded not guilty and is awaiting trial.

    Libby testified that Cheney ``advised him that the president had authorized defendant to disclose the relevant portions'' of a 2002 National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq's pursuit of nuclear weapons to former New York Times reporter Judith Miller, the court filing says.

    Cheney's role in authorizing the leak was reported in February by the National Journal magazine. The court papers filed by Fitzgerald last night are the first to tie Bush directly to the chain of events in the administration's attempt to counter critics of the March 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq by using Libby as a conduit for information to reporters.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...top_world_news

    can someone please change the title to something more meaningful mow?
    Last edited by Søren; April 06, 2006 at 01:29 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Bush: “If There Is A Leak Out Of My Administration, I Want To Know Who It Is. And If The Person Has Violated Law, The Person Will Be Taken Care Of”... [9/30/03] http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030930-9.html

    Oh, irony.
    "In whom all beings have become one with the knowing soul
    what delusion or sorrow is there for the one who sees unity?"
    -The Isa Upanishad

    "There once was a man John McCain,
    Who had the whole White House to gain.
    But he was quite a hobbyist
    at boning his lobbyist.
    And there goes his '08 campaign."
    -Stephen Colbert

    Under the kind patronage of Seneca

  3. #3
    IamthePope's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    well this doesnt look good. I'm sure there's a good explanation of this (I hope)

    "Not to know what happened before you were born is to be a child forever. For what is the time of a man, except that it should be interwoven with that memory of ancient things of a superior age?" -Marcus Tullius Cicero

  4. #4
    TW Bigfoot
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    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Now the the rot which has been staring to show in the woodwork of the bush administration.
    Is starting to look like an infestation.

    Last year....

    Indictment rocks Bush administration

    The indictment - and resignation - of Lewis Libby,
    chief-of-staff to Vice-President Dick Cheney, is a wound in the side of the president.
    It raises serious questions about how the Bush administration sought to justify the war against Iraq and brings into scrutiny the possible role of Mr Cheney in the unlawful disclosure of a CIA agent.

    It certainly sounds a discordant note when put against the rallying call of then Governor George Bush when he was running for the presidency after the Clinton years had culminated in a Senate impeachment trial.

    He would, he always declared at the end of his speeches, bring "dignity back to the White House".
    Has this man brought 'dignity' to the oval office?

    The nuclear claim is where most of this currrent debacle comes from.

    In February 2002, Joseph Wilson, a former US ambassador was sent to Niger in West Africa to investigate intelligence that Iraq had agreed the purchase of uranium yellowcake (refined uranium ore) there.

    Since Iraq had no civilian nuclear programme, the supposition was that it was seeking a source of fuel for a military one.
    The British government certainly believed the Niger report, at least to the extent that Iraq had made approaches to Niger - and strangely enough after all that has happened, still does, even though the CIA does not.
    London used it in its intelligence dossier against Iraq. Mr Bush himself referred to it in his State of the Union address in January 2003.
    But Mr Wilson said he found no evidence of any sale. In an article in the New York Times after the war he quoted news reports that documents purporting to show a sale were probably forged. Nor did he report any clear evidence that Iraq had approached Niger for a sale.

    Nothing much might have happened had Mr Wilson not written that article. In it he stated: "A legitimate argument can be made that we went to war under false pretences."

    Eight days later, a veteran Washington columnist Robert Novak, wrote that Mr Wilson's wife Valerie Plame (her unmarried name) was a CIA agent whose job was to analyse the spread of nuclear weapons.
    Novak said that "two senior administration officials" had told him that Valerie Plame herself had suggested the Niger trip.
    The implication was that Ms Plame had put work and prestige her husband's way and, according to a Democratic Congressman, Henry Waxman, was part of a "smear campaign" against Mr Wilson.
    Intriguingly the indictment says that Mr Novak was told about Valerie Plame by someone at the White House simply described as Official A. This official is now said in news reports to be Karl Rove.

    The knowing disclosure of an undercover CIA agent is illegal, so the hunt started for the source of the leak.
    Be in no doubt.
    This Rot goes right to the core of the Bush administration.
    Last edited by bigfootedfred; April 06, 2006 at 09:50 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Typical spin. Love how they say "Bush authorized disclosure of classified information on Iraq's weapons program." Uh, what information was disclosed about "Iraqs weapons program?"



    Sources :

    http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=9742
    http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...13/154904.html
    http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell...chapter2-b.htm
    Last edited by crazyj; April 07, 2006 at 04:02 PM.


    A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.
    --George Patton

    Hell hath no fury like a non-combatant.
    --Charles Edward Montague

    Oscar Wilde was a child molester. Quoting him doesn't mean that you're smart...you're just promoting a homosexual pedophile.
    --Sgt. Schultz

  6. #6

    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Funny, a lot of crazyj's reseponse was cut and pasted from this website:

    http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=9742

    I believe that's called plagiarism, crazyj

    EDIT: and this one http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...13/154904.html
    (plagiarizing Anne Coulter? Wow...that's doubly bad!)
    and this one: http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell...chapter2-b.htm
    Last edited by The Fish; April 07, 2006 at 12:28 AM.
    "In whom all beings have become one with the knowing soul
    what delusion or sorrow is there for the one who sees unity?"
    -The Isa Upanishad

    "There once was a man John McCain,
    Who had the whole White House to gain.
    But he was quite a hobbyist
    at boning his lobbyist.
    And there goes his '08 campaign."
    -Stephen Colbert

    Under the kind patronage of Seneca

  7. #7
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fish
    Funny, a lot of crazyj's reseponse was cut and pasted from this website:

    http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=9742

    I believe that's called plagiarism, crazyj

    EDIT: and this one http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...13/154904.html
    (plagiarizing Anne Coulter? Wow...that's doubly bad!)
    and this one: http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell...chapter2-b.htm
    Ann Coulter, who is Ann Coulter? ahhh....I see...
    Ann Coulter is the author of four New York Times bestsellers — How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must) (October, 2004), Treason: Liberal Treachery From the Cold War to the War on Terrorism (June 2003); Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right (June 2002); and High Crimes and Misdemeanors:The Case Against Bill Clinton (August 1998).
    Looks like an unbiased opinion...

    Let us say for the sake of politness that he found the exact words he had in his mind, and being engulfed by copypasting passion, he somehow failed to present his sources.

    Thanks for the heads-up Fish, it is only an intermediate offense:

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Rules
    Intermediate Offenses
    Intermediate offenses will usually receive a warning on every offense. Intermediate offenses include:

    * Posting copyrighted material in a manner that could dissuade someone from accessing it in a legitimate manner. Post a link instead, with a brief quote if you want. If you post a whole article, people aren't going to go to the site, and the copyright holder loses out on ad revenue for his work. Likewise for posting scanned pics from magazines, scans of reference pics from a reference book, etc. Also for linking to sites that do this. Nobody cares if you use a copyrighted image for an avatar, though, for instance, since there's no significant market for that.
    Last edited by Garbarsardar; April 07, 2006 at 02:14 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Appended to my last post: Wilson had some qualifications, read up on his heroism in Iraq in the 90's, but not in the area to which he claims he was assigned. And yea, I used some posts becuz I had to run out the door and used the first articles that appeared (out of hundreds) so sue me (was actually expecting someone to point that out), it doesn't change the fact that what Wilson reported doesn't jibe with what was concluded by his debriefers, that he refused to honestly answer questions about he got the post, etc. which DOES call into question the very nature of his statements.
    Last edited by crazyj; April 07, 2006 at 01:35 AM.


    A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.
    --George Patton

    Hell hath no fury like a non-combatant.
    --Charles Edward Montague

    Oscar Wilde was a child molester. Quoting him doesn't mean that you're smart...you're just promoting a homosexual pedophile.
    --Sgt. Schultz

  9. #9

    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Yes yes good work. As I said, i was writing out my own response to the topic when my roommate said "lets go" (to dee bars) so while he was honking zee horn outside I pasted what I could to some things I wrote then hit post because he was threatening to leave at any minute, and I wanted to address the topic somehow. Like I said, I expected this "discovery" on your part due to the lenghty nature of the post and the varying grammatical styles. My apologies. Hardly a habit, but its a shame that it has taken focus off the original issue, namely why all this extreme deception and obfuscation on the part of Wilson and Plame as to how he got the post, what he actually saw, the nature of his assignment, and the nature of her outing. And I hardly agree with Coulter, most of the time I disagree, but her article on Plame was one of the first hits I got and had some worthy commentary. If you notice most of the stuff came from the other two sources, so dwelling on her does no good.


    A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.
    --George Patton

    Hell hath no fury like a non-combatant.
    --Charles Edward Montague

    Oscar Wilde was a child molester. Quoting him doesn't mean that you're smart...you're just promoting a homosexual pedophile.
    --Sgt. Schultz

  10. #10

    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Plagiarism may be an intermediate offense on this forum, but it is NOT a minor matter in any other intellectual space. Passing someone else's words and arguments off as your own is intellectually irresponsible. Why not just turn this whole forum into a place where we can post opposing op-ed articles? This is supposed to be a place where arguments are formed and given, not regurgitated from outside sources. How can we trust anything you write anymore? Anyone can, in the future, just cut and paste huge tracts of words from other sources and make it seem like they have put in a great deal of thought formulating a cogent response. Plagiarizing in an academic insitution, for instance, is grounds for serious punishment and even dismissal. Your actions are totally derelict, and I am appalled that you're trying to pass it off as no big deal. It is a big deal.
    Last edited by The Fish; April 07, 2006 at 11:32 AM.
    "In whom all beings have become one with the knowing soul
    what delusion or sorrow is there for the one who sees unity?"
    -The Isa Upanishad

    "There once was a man John McCain,
    Who had the whole White House to gain.
    But he was quite a hobbyist
    at boning his lobbyist.
    And there goes his '08 campaign."
    -Stephen Colbert

    Under the kind patronage of Seneca

  11. #11

    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fish
    Plagiarism may be an intermediate offense on this forum, but it is NOT a minor matter in any other intellectual space. Passing someone else's words and arguments off as your own is intellectually irresponsible. Why not just turn this whole forum into a place where we can post opposing op-ed articles? This is supposed to be a place where arguments are formed and given, not regurgitated from outside sources. How can we trust anything you write anymore? Anyone can, in the future, just cut and paste huge tracts of words from other sources and make it seem like they have put in a great deal of thought formulating a cogent response. Plagiarizing in an academic insitution, for instance, is grounds for serious punishment and even dismissal. Your actions are totally derelict, and I am appalled that you're trying to pass it off as no big deal. It is a big deal.

    Thank for you stating the obvious Doc. Good thing I didn't publish that in a newsletter or book but rather in a stupid forum, along wtih the explanation for why, along with the fact that it is the only instance wherein I've committed plagarism on this site. Please spare me your "loss of faith" arguments simply so you can keep harping on it. I've already provided an explanation so dwelling on it shows you for what you are: vindictive and disengenuous. How can you trust anything I write? Easy, do the same google searches used for the post in question if your trust has been so badly shaken. Get over it and move on. And you DO realize much of what is posted on this is simply entire articles, or copied and pasted info with sources. Given that I've already explained the hurry that I was in (and that I was drunk) I didn't bother to post the sources THIS ONE TIME and fully expected somebody to point that out. Didn't think it'd make you sit there going "oh the humanity!!" but was hoping you would respond to the actual substance of the articles, which I notice you have avoided doing in favoring of trumpeting about intellectual honesty.


    A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.
    --George Patton

    Hell hath no fury like a non-combatant.
    --Charles Edward Montague

    Oscar Wilde was a child molester. Quoting him doesn't mean that you're smart...you're just promoting a homosexual pedophile.
    --Sgt. Schultz

  12. #12
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyj
    Thank for you stating the obvious Doc. Good thing I didn't publish that in a newsletter or book but rather in a stupid forum, along wtih the explanation for why, along with the fact that it is the only instance wherein I've committed plagarism on this site. Please spare me your "loss of faith" arguments simply so you can keep harping on it. I've already provided an explanation so dwelling on it shows you for what you are: vindictive and disengenuous. How can you trust anything I write? Easy, do the same google searches used for the post in question if your trust has been so badly shaken. Get over it and move on. And you DO realize much of what is posted on this is simply entire articles, or copied and pasted info with sources. Given that I've already explained the hurry that I was in (and that I was drunk) I didn't bother to post the sources THIS ONE TIME and fully expected somebody to point that out. Didn't think it'd make you sit there going "oh the humanity!!" but was hoping you would respond to the actual substance of the articles, which I notice you have avoided doing in favoring of trumpeting about intellectual honesty.
    "I apologise" would be two nice words to use here instead of this paragraph.

    It is also ironic to use terms as vindictive and disengenuous at the moment that your source is the author of How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must) (October, 2004), Treason: Liberal Treachery From the Cold War to the War on Terrorism (June 2003); Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right (June 2002);

    And until you add the proper sources and links at the proper place in your post, so that the statements can be properly attributed, I will refrain from any further comment.

    I said, GOOD DAY.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by Garbarsardar
    "I apologise" would be two nice words to use here instead of this paragraph.
    Quote Originally Posted by crazyj
    My apologies.
    Hmm maybe you didn't see that before.


    Quote Originally Posted by Garbarsardar
    It is also ironic to use terms as vindictive and disengenuous at the moment that your source is the author of How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must) (October, 2004), Treason: Liberal Treachery From the Cold War to the War on Terrorism (June 2003); Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right (June 2002);

    And until you add the proper sources and links at the proper place in your post, so that the statements can be properly attributed, I will refrain from any further comment.
    It is ironic that you keep insisting coulter is THE source rather than one I used the least in the post, even after I have already pointed out such numerous times. Further, using the TITLES of Coulter's books that I haven't even read to somehow draw a parallel between the two of us to show irony IS vindictive and disengenuous, which is why I said such. There you go sir, I've destroyed the damnable articles and left their sources in case anyone feels like reading them. If you would to like to know where the statements should be attributed, read each article.


    A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.
    --George Patton

    Hell hath no fury like a non-combatant.
    --Charles Edward Montague

    Oscar Wilde was a child molester. Quoting him doesn't mean that you're smart...you're just promoting a homosexual pedophile.
    --Sgt. Schultz

  14. #14
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyj
    If you would to like to know where the statements should be attributed, read each article.
    Sorry, that is your work not mine. If you want to support arguments with sources YOU have to point us to the source. At the moment your post consists of a question
    Quote Originally Posted by crajyj
    Typical spin. Love how they say "Bush authorized disclosure of classified information on Iraq's weapons program." Uh, what information was disclosed about "Iraqs weapons program?
    and three sources.

    If you cannot bother to present an argument, why anyone should bother to sort it out for you?

    Anyway...

    Bush has condemned the leaking of classified information, saying it would not be tolerated by anyone in his administration. ''I don't know of anybody in my administration who leaked classified information," Bush said in September 2003, two months after he allegedly approved Libby's leak. ''If somebody did leak classified information, I'd like to know it, and we'll take the appropriate action."Source

    He testified that Mr Cheney had told him to pass information from the classified National Intelligence Estimate to Judith Miller, a New York Times reporter.Mr Cheney is alleged to have said that the release of classified information had been approved by the president.Source

    I think Bush is afraid to take the appropriate action . This type Cheney has been known for shooting people in the face for less than this...

  15. #15
    Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    I expect to see the democrats drop the ball on this one too. Bush's greatest enemy is himself.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    This will never get Bush impeached. All this is, is he-said, she-said. One guy on trial trying to pin the blame on his boss is not very substantial evidence. You need recorded phone calls, internal secret memos, something like that to even make this story fly, because whether they are innocent or not, GWB and Cheney are going to say they had nothing to do with this and that will be the end of it without further proof.

    You'd also have to get the Senate and House to impeach the president, which would not fly over well with the people during war-time. Considering Republicans control both the House and Senate, there is no chance of an impeachment resolution passing unless evidence comes forth that is so undeniable that even the Republicans will be shamed into voting for impeachment.

    Oh yeah, and I don't care about the small-potatoes debate going on in here about internet plagiarism or Ann Coulter. Please cease these debates as they fill up my screen with stuff completely irrelevant to the topic.
    Last edited by Farnan; April 07, 2006 at 05:33 PM.

  17. #17
    Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by bbcrackmonkey
    This will never get Bush impeached. All this is, is he-said, she-said. One guy on trial trying to pin the blame on his boss is not very substantial evidence. You need recorded phone calls, internal secret memos, something like that to even make this story fly, because whether they are innocent or not, GWB and Cheney are going to say they had nothing to do with this and that will be the end of it without further proof.
    The whitehouse has already admitted it.
    Last edited by over-man; April 07, 2006 at 05:45 PM.

  18. #18
    Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Oh I love that title.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Legal fallout from this revelation: not too much. As President, he has discretionary power over declassifying documents, so his argument is that he declassified it. The fact that he declassified it to a single, sympathetic reporter (Judith Miller), allowing her to write a favorable article before making it more widely accessible a week later is sleazy, but not illegal (at least from my understanding of it).

    Political fallout: Could be significant. This is a hit on his credibility, especially since he (now infamously) went on a tirade against "leakers" in his administration. For the NSA wiretapping case, he was seemingly so concerned about not revealing intelligence gathering methods that he refused to even brief the full Intelligence Committee on it (listen to this interview with Congresswoman Jane Harman for more info about this, there's also an interview with a conservative legal prof who doesn't think it's a big deal). Yet, when revealing intelligence operations is politically favorable to him, as in this case, he suddenly has no qualms about it. Again, sleazy, but not illegal.
    "In whom all beings have become one with the knowing soul
    what delusion or sorrow is there for the one who sees unity?"
    -The Isa Upanishad

    "There once was a man John McCain,
    Who had the whole White House to gain.
    But he was quite a hobbyist
    at boning his lobbyist.
    And there goes his '08 campaign."
    -Stephen Colbert

    Under the kind patronage of Seneca

  20. #20

    Default Re: Bush approves Iraq Intelligence Leak

    Will Libby go down as the John Dean of the Bush Administration?

    I think everyone in the Adminstration was hoping he would take one for the team.

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