Dwarf and Hobbit Ponymen?

[Prince of Judah]

PLease note: I am NOT referring to the stupid Magical Pony Cult currently plaguing the forums. please don't discuss that here as that is not what my thread is about.

This may sound silly, especially since Gimili himself once said "a Dwarf is no horseman". But he didn't say not a Ponyman! Since Eriador will be added later, and there will be hobbit units, why not try something peculiar like Hobbit Horse(Pony) Crossbowmen? Maybe Dwarf Horse Crossbowmen or perhaps scouts? Hobbit and Dwarf Ponymen scouts seems a rather reasonable proposal, maybe more realistic than the HCB idea.

[Aradan]

There won't be crossbows for Dwarves, but ponies will make an appearance; though perhaps not quite like you imagine. Hobbits have an extremely limited roster and won't feature anything of the sort.

[Thangaror]

Well, I guess Dwarves will have some sort of mannish merc cavalry from Rhovanion or Dale.

There won't be crossbows for Dwarves, but ponies will make an appearance; though perhaps not quite like you imagine. Hobbits have an extremely limited roster and won't feature anything of the sort.

Ah, the emerging faction will be the Killer-ponies of Mirkwood.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

Y R U NOT HAZ CROSSBOAWS!!!!????

[Aradan]

Damnit, I inadvertently gave our top secret away! Nooooooooooessss!!!

Y R U NOT HAZ CROSSBOAWS!!!!????

[Prince of Judah]

I would also like to know why there are no crossbows. =/

[Themea]

A lore thingy

[TheDarkKnight]

There was no mention of crossbows in any works of Tolkien as far as I'm aware of...It is possible that in the Fourth Age a faction like the dwarves could have *conceivably* developed them, but I doubt the FA Team would be willing to add them into the game ever.

Plus that would mean having to develop new animation for crossbows because they weren't used in Rome TW or any of the expansions.

[CountMRVHS]

I think there were some crossbows in BI, right? Mercenary Bucellarii or something like that.

[acci_dent]

I know that the Celts in BI had crossbows but seeing as there's no mention of crossbows in Tolkien (i think?) I doubt they'll be added to FATW.

[Thangaror]

As said before, Tolkien didn't mention crossbows.
I don't think this is a reason not to implement them (there are ballistas, so why not crossbows?) but I'd also say it doesn't really fit the Dwarves. Indeed, they *DID* use bows, for hunting at least, and where also skilled with it, so it's not that stupid fantasy stereotype "Dwarves use axes and cannot do archery because they are so heavy-handed".
I think the main point is that Dwarves don't really have use for a long-range weapon: Their fortresses are underground. It is dark, narrow, distances are quite short, pillars standing around, so a bow or sth the like doesn't make a lot of sense. Even in huge halls like in Khazad-dûm melee or short range combat is suited better. And since the Dwarves don't build walls, towers and stuff they also don't have to fight a foe some meters beneath them.

In gameplay terms they could make use of it and a missile unit would be nice. But I assume they'll be able to recruit some of the Dalish units.
If I was in charge to give them a ranged weapon, I'd give them artillery, something like the scorpio.

[Cinuz]

As said before, Tolkien didn't mention crossbows.
I don't think this is a reason not to implement them (there are ballistas, so why not crossbows?) but I'd also say it doesn't really fit the Dwarves. Indeed, they *DID* use bows, for hunting at least, and where also skilled with it, so it's not that stupid fantasy stereotype "Dwarves use axes and cannot do archery because they are so heavy-handed".
I think the main point is that Dwarves don't really have use for a long-range weapon: Their fortresses are underground. It is dark, narrow, distances are quite short, pillars standing around, so a bow or sth the like doesn't make a lot of sense. Even in huge halls like in Khazad-dûm melee or short range combat is suited better. And since the Dwarves don't build walls, towers and stuff they also don't have to fight a foe some meters beneath them.

In gameplay terms they could make use of it and a missile unit would be nice. But I assume they'll be able to recruit some of the Dalish units.
If I was in charge to give them a ranged weapon, I'd give them artillery, something like the scorpio.

Nothing to say about the lore...but in the time between the end of the third era and the beginning of the fourth someone could have developed them since there are the ballistas as someone said (was it you? don't remember)...

Anyway, technically speaking, the dwarves would find themselves more comfortable in using crossbows rather than normal bows. I'll explain why:

- First of all, they're dwarves: their arms are little but they're not agile as the hobbits: I think they would find themselves uncomfortable in tending a bow's string because of the way their body are, just saying.

- As you just said their fortress are underground or situeted in some mountains. So I think they would prefer a weapon that shoot its dart stright and with a lot of power, without having to aim high to make the projectiles reach a farer distance, like the bows...

- Anyway, the dwarves doesn't fight only in their fortress, but even in the open ground I believe...I don't think they always wait for an invader to come at their places, but they would even meet them on the field I believe, so there's no point in saying something about their fortress in my opinion.

- They need anyway a long-range unit. Giving them human or elf archers as "support units" would be rather incorrect even for gameplay reasons: what if the dwarves begin a war with the elves? why should they continue to give them aid? On the other hand (personal opinion though) giving them dwarves archers would be strange. I personally would not be convinced by a dwarves bowmen unit...I think crossbows suits them better...giving them, just saying, axe throwers would be good, but they definetly need a long range unit.

Hope my points of view are understandable.




EDIT - Anyway a big fat NO on the dwarves ponymen...about the elves...uhm, maybe they'd look funny to see, so why not?

[Thangaror]

Nothing to say about the lore...but in the time between the end of the third era and the beginning of the fourth someone could have developed them since there are the ballistas as someone said (was it you? don't remember)...

You cannot really argue this way. Mankind exists in Middle-earth for appromximately 7,000 years. By end of the first age, their techniques are similar to those of the late antique of our world.
Therefore they actually should have developed gunpowder in mid Second Age and way superiour techniques by end of the Third Age and would fly around at speed of light in spaceships.

- First of all, they're dwarves: their arms are little but they're not agile as the hobbits: I think they would find themselves uncomfortable in tending a bow's string because of the way their body are, just saying.

Warhammer Stereotype

- As you just said their fortress are underground or situeted in some mountains. So I think they would prefer a weapon that shoot its dart stright and with a lot of power, without having to aim high to make the projectiles reach a farer distance, like the bows...

Underground they don't need a long ranged weapon. If they can use one, they will be in a huge hall, were the projectile could fly in a parabole.

- Anyway, the dwarves doesn't fight only in their fortress, but even in the open ground I believe...I don't think they always wait for an invader to come at their places, but they would even meet them on the field I believe, so there's no point in saying something about their fortress in my opinion.

Sure they do. But in an open battle Dwarves wouldn't need a missile unit I think.

- They need anyway a long-range unit. Giving them human or elf archers as "support units" would be rather incorrect even for gameplay reasons:

Who's speaking of Elves? Dwarves will have an unbreakable alliance with Dale, and Dale has good archers. So giving the Dwarves Dalish Longbowmen would be quite sensible and true to the lore.

[Cinuz]

You cannot really argue this way. Mankind exists in Middle-earth for appromximately 7,000 years. By end of the first age, their techniques are similar to those of the late antique of our world.
Therefore they actually should have developed gunpowder in mid Second Age and way superiour techniques by end of the Third Age and would fly around at speed of light in spaceships.

I think anyway that you can't argue this way either, because the Middle Earth is a totally different world from our own...Gunpowder?Spaceships? those are just things related to our world...if after 7000 years the mankind is still stucked in a sort of medieval age in the Middle Earth, there's surely a reason. Anyway, it's still plausible that a technological "innovation" so simple as the crossbow (are you aware that the first rudimental crossbows were around during the IVth century bc?) shouldn't be something that impossible to reach for the middle earth inhabitants...

Warhammer Stereotype

Don't know, I've never put any interest in warhammer

Underground they don't need a long ranged weapon. If they can use one, they will be in a huge hall, were the projectile could fly in a parabole.

I think a parabole turn pretty much useless when you got a roof over your head where your arrows could hit and then lose they potential. "No", you'll say, "dwarves have huge halls", then I'll respond you yes, but even if they can build an hall that has its roof at 100 meters of highness, an arrow can reach that highness with ease.

Even because, if you want to use a parabole in an hall (when after all your enemy are so close to you and then it would better to shoot stright ahead to don't waste time) you have to aim really high, so that your arrow come back somewhat "near" to you...this make the reach of the roof even more plausible...in such a closed and restricted place, crossbows would be more useful than bows, for the reasons that I have already explained (parabole-roof, distance from the enemy, necessity to shoot right ahead). I hope I explained this well, otherwise I'll make a draw

Sure they do. But in an open battle Dwarves wouldn't need a missile unit I think.

I'm talking about the gameplay

Who's speaking of Elves? Dwarves will have an unbreakable alliance with Dale, and Dale has good archers. So giving the Dwarves Dalish Longbowmen would be quite sensible and true to the lore.

Elves were just an example of course

Mmh, don't like the unbreakable alliances, they remove liberty from the gameplay...anyway...why do you say that it would be true to the lore? Because of the battle at the end of The Hobbit? If that's the case, that I'd like to make you notice that right ten minutes before the beginning of the battle, the Dalish men wanted to attack the dwarves...

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Edit - I know this goes against the things that I'm saying but now that I'm thinking about The Hobbit, I think I remember one or two of the dwarves armed with a bow [Fili and Kili maybe?]. Anyway, I really don't remember, but maybe someone should check

[Aradan]

Patience, patience, we'll make everyone happy.

[Spike]

actually, dwarf didn't need crossbows, they have blunderbusses

BTW, dwarfen blunderbuss ponymen seems nice

[Thangaror]

actually, dwarf didn't need crossbows, they have blunderbusses

Oh, right!
Btw, is there a download linked here on TWC?

BTW, dwarfen blunderbuss ponymen seems nice

How lovely!

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

Patience, patience, we'll make everyone happy.

I so hate it when Aradan does this

[Aradan]

Are you a psychic?

[Beorn]

Are you a psychic?

No, those pony-riding blunderbuss-yielding dwarves are