First Impressions

[Axeface]

EDIT: Probably the wrong forum sorry, had issues logging in and didnt notice which one I was in.

Hi all,

I'm just posing my first impressions here really, and also some questions I have towards the bottom.
FYI I am on VH/VH.

I recently came back to M edieval and after an amazing vanilla campaign (with lusted ai) as the Moors, I decided to try a few mods. I used to use TATW and adored it.

Installing this mod and adding the submod (Reallybad) I wanted was pain free which was great. It took me a while to get the campaign map running nicely, as I experienced a lot of lag. It still lags but now at least I can tolerate it, I'm a modder myself so I totally understand the urge to go crazy with detail and make something amazing (The map IS amazing) but I think it could really use some optimisation. Even by lowering the graphics, shadows off, deleting the new trade models etc it still lags... so it occurs to me that the engine might be struggling.

The Battlemaps are fantastic, the whole game just looks and sounds better. I also love the little touch of including banners in the units (guys actually holding banners)... really helps as I turning bouncing banners off for immersion.

Now for some questions. I'm wondering if my install is correct as these things dont seem quite right.

1. Is Lusted Battle AI AND Campaign AI etc etc installed if I setup Stainless Steel (With the setup exe) with that? I tried Reallbad and not really liking it.
Will I need to reinstall?

2. Militia units might as well be peasants. I've noticed that almost all militia are 'throw away' men now, I may as well field peasants. My question is, does this change as I upgrade them?
I feel that the vanilla approach to militia works, against professional troops they will get slaughtered, just not instantly (See question 2).

3. Is cavalry supposed to be so powerful in the charge? For example, If I send my generals unit against some archers, they lose up to 60% of their men literally in seconds. Cavalry was powerful, but the rate at which units get decimated is in my humble opinion not realistic. Sure, tonnes of flesh smashing into a wall of people can cause chaos, but only a few will die in the initial hit, most will just get knocked down.
I tested this once by sending my general (1 man, no other units) at a unit of spear militia, in the initial charge he killed 5 men, just in the impact.
It leads me to think, why would I even use infantry if cavalry can decimate units this fast.

4. Is it possible to switch the UI back to vanilla?

5. I'm getting a LOT of money, I'm on about turn 20 and I have 140,000 florins, I build constantly and have trade rights with only 1 faction. Intended?

If these things are intended, is there a submod that put the values back towards vanilla? I love the campaign map, I love the battlemap, I love the sounds, but the unit balance isnt really for me.



PLEASE keep in mind that I'm only at turn 20, if these things change as I upgrade I would like to know.

Thanks in advance and thank you for the mod!

[Caesar Clivus]

Only Lusted campaign AI is included in SS.

As for unit balance, SS uses the RealCombat system of unit stats that uses real-life data for values. It's different from vanilla but more accurate.

[buncheesy]

I am new to mods and this is my first.

My impressions on H/H with really badAI are completely different!

1. No campaign map lag at all
2. ReallyBadAI is excellent! Although I am still running rings around it I at least have to concentrate and it does feel like its maneuvering more like an army than without the submod.
3. I am venice and their millitia units are the backbone of the army!! I have some full units with a silver chevron after 60 years of campaigning. They survive battle after battle after battle....
4. Cavaly are really the winners of the battle. even so they are not rapidly recruitable so every opportunity to recruit cavalry I take and I dont seem to be 'overburdened' with cavalry. I still lose a lot because I use them to break the opposition in every battle. (I do have 1 gold chevroned heavy cavaly and one genral...hmmm)
5. UI meh! its slightly better IMO but is it really a problem?
6. I have trade alliances with every other power except Genoa whom I am at war with. I am allied to 9 powers. The pope loves me. I have been playng about 60 years, churning out units and building economic/growth buildings primarily, and I have a full complement of merchants trading silk/sugar/gold. I think I rule 16 provinces? I have 10,000 in the bank so how in the hell do you have sooo much money?????

PS apparently if you play with BGRIV on you will have your excess money woes rapidly fixed!

[Ichon]

Upgraded militia will be able to stand up a bit better to cavalry but right now I think many people have the opinion that cavalry charge is a bit too strong. Working on ways to lower it without upsetting the rest of the balance. I don't know if the majority of people playing SS think cavalry is overpowered or not... maybe a good poll if it hasn't already been done.

Money is always a problem- even in vanilla I thought so. You can lower kings purse or add upkeep costs to generals and that will help but it also depends extremely on the faction you are playing. ERE, England, Italians, Moors, etc make money incredibly fast. Lithuania, Norway, a few other make it less fast but still more than you really need on basic SS. You can try BGR IV or some of the other submods like SerbianHussar's that attempt to make campaigns go a bit slower with less money for the player and other changes.

[Axeface]

Thanks for the replies. I'll check out the mods mentioned.
Yeh the money I'm making is crazy really, turn 26... 170,000 florins (Moors... I'm addicted now since I got Hashashim in the vanilla campaoign ) In vanilla I made a lot of mney too but only once I had many cities upgraded. Finished as the moors with like 700,000 florins, crusade after crusade simply could not break me at Tunis, gotta love those bridges...

As for the cavalry thing, yeh they always were the winners in vanilla too. But they needed support to hold the enemy, whats that saying... "Infantry is your shield, and cavalry your sword". So far in ss my infantry is so easy to break that I just go all out offensive with cavalry so I dont lose the men. Increasing upkeep of cavalry could help, but then I do have 170,000 florins.
Should I start a poll? Right now I'm not even bothering to use my armies, the generals unit can take on armies in excess of 800 men (captain lead) and route them with careful charging (I might take a video hehe).

@buncheesy 10,000? Do you use the free upkeep carefully etc? I tend to switch most settlements to towns and only keepa few citadels around, always one within a turn or two of each city.

EDIT: Well after a few more battles I've kind of lost interest really I'm afraid. I charged what was left of a unit of desert cavalry (25 left of 80, Light skirmishers) against a full group of spears (171 I think) and within 10 seconds there were 60 spears left, and I had lost 3 cavalry.
It seems it's not just cavalry that decimate units however. I tried some infantry only battles to see how it is and units get wiped out very quickly against pretty much anything. It seems that the combat is aimed towards a more action orientated system and not a moral based one. Battles are very very quick.

EDIT 2: There simply must be something wrong. I was looking up as to why combat is so fast with SS and found RealCombat, which is integrated, am I right?
Quote from Realcombat "I have frequently been less than satisfied with the quick and bloody combats in vanilla M2TW, and the often unrealistic results"

I'm finding combat to be much much faster and unrealistic in SS, people simply do not die this easily. So there must be something wrong with my install. Reinstalling.

[Gogolometro]

Axeface, suggestions from me who I play SS from some time, dont judge a mod because you play moors.
First, moors start hard the campaign, lot of cities, good trade and BETTER CAVALRY than enemy nations.
So you can understand me think like this, on the sands of Africa, the arab cavalry or desert guys will eat my aragonese feudal cavalry at breakfast.
I play Aragon from 1100. I am at year 1276 and was in war with moors probably 120 years. The good thing, papacy just love me. Bad things, first I was forced to ask crusade after crusade. In 1245 the England keep it Silves. Before Granada conquered by genovese, french, portugese and polish was lost to moors.
About how is it to fight versus moors like Aragon, imagine this, I start with less money, less cities, less army. I cant afford a long war. I cant use more cavalry, no money, and no pools to recruit. Santiago are maybe 6 units and Montesa 4 now. Feudal cavalry cost too much and are less effective. Against the moor general, armored horse and good man lamelar armor not the cavalry is the key. My backbone in this campaign was the javelin units, regular, lusitan and almugavars.
Like a conclusion, moors asked me 5 times peace treaty. 4 times I accepted asking at least 25-35000 florins, who have no problem to pay.
So dont judge SS because 1 campaign and 50 turns.
Try turks, teutons, byzantines, germans or scotts. About cavalry charge, is not about unrealistic, is about mass of a half tone horse, with armor, a armored and well armored horseman who enter in battle just for crushing the guys on foot.
How the hell you imagine the crusaders won battles after battles outnumbered with their mounted knights?
Keep in mind, at that time of history if you dont have heavy cavalry in battle and enemy have it, you are pretty scrwed. Exceptions are just for variety.

[Kabeloko]

EDIT: Probably the wrong forum sorry, had issues logging in and didnt notice which one I was in.

Hi all,

I'm just posing my first impressions here really, and also some questions I have towards the bottom.
FYI I am on VH/VH.

I recently came back to M edieval and after an amazing vanilla campaign (with lusted ai) as the Moors, I decided to try a few mods. I used to use TATW and adored it.

Installing this mod and adding the submod (Reallybad) I wanted was pain free which was great. It took me a while to get the campaign map running nicely, as I experienced a lot of lag. It still lags but now at least I can tolerate it, I'm a modder myself so I totally understand the urge to go crazy with detail and make something amazing (The map IS amazing) but I think it could really use some optimisation. Even by lowering the graphics, shadows off, deleting the new trade models etc it still lags... so it occurs to me that the engine might be struggling.

The Battlemaps are fantastic, the whole game just looks and sounds better. I also love the little touch of including banners in the units (guys actually holding banners)... really helps as I turning bouncing banners off for immersion.

Now for some questions. I'm wondering if my install is correct as these things dont seem quite right.

1. Is Lusted Battle AI AND Campaign AI etc etc installed if I setup Stainless Steel (With the setup exe) with that? I tried Reallbad and not really liking it.
Will I need to reinstall?

2. Militia units might as well be peasants. I've noticed that almost all militia are 'throw away' men now, I may as well field peasants. My question is, does this change as I upgrade them?
I feel that the vanilla approach to militia works, against professional troops they will get slaughtered, just not instantly (See question 2).

3. Is cavalry supposed to be so powerful in the charge? For example, If I send my generals unit against some archers, they lose up to 60% of their men literally in seconds. Cavalry was powerful, but the rate at which units get decimated is in my humble opinion not realistic. Sure, tonnes of flesh smashing into a wall of people can cause chaos, but only a few will die in the initial hit, most will just get knocked down.
I tested this once by sending my general (1 man, no other units) at a unit of spear militia, in the initial charge he killed 5 men, just in the impact.
It leads me to think, why would I even use infantry if cavalry can decimate units this fast.

4. Is it possible to switch the UI back to vanilla?

5. I'm getting a LOT of money, I'm on about turn 20 and I have 140,000 florins, I build constantly and have trade rights with only 1 faction. Intended?

If these things are intended, is there a submod that put the values back towards vanilla? I love the campaign map, I love the battlemap, I love the sounds, but the unit balance isnt really for me.



PLEASE keep in mind that I'm only at turn 20, if these things change as I upgrade I would like to know.

Thanks in advance and thank you for the mod!

i recomend putting the real recruitment, longer assimilation, limited activities, and all the stuff that hold u down...
then cavalry will be rare, be it by its cost, time to recruit etc...
and i honestly dont find it unbalanced, considering a previous post i read somewhere...
real life archers would probly crap themselves and get owned...
in history, is estimated that a man riding a horse could kill at least around 2 more men then on foot...