Russian Unit Combos?

[Kine]

I suffered my first proper defeat in M2 last night playing as Russians. Equally matched in numbers and strenght.


Russians used Kazak H.Archers + Boyar Sons H.Javelins with Militia spears buying time by engaging enemy infantry during the opener.

Opponents were Hungary and Poland.

Hungary fielded Dismounted Feudal Knights, Militia Spears and Hungarian Cav.
Poland brought Spears, Archers, Woodsmen and Mounted XBows.

A. Lost the open field battle against Hungary primarily because I didn't have a counter for Hungary's Dis. Feudal Knights and it was a huge battle making micro-managing my Cavs a real challenge. Even switching between camera bookmarks my H.Archers sometimes still get caught here and there now and then.

B. Defeat at the hands of the Poles was mainly due to my infantry giving out wayyyy too early before the Cavs could dish out real damage from range.


Question 1:

Is there a better unit combo for the Russians. A one size fits all combo that I can mass produce to fend off Hnugary, Poland, Venice and Turks?


Question 2:

Whats a good siege army for the Russians? I'm reduced to starving garrisons out or luring them out of settlements by parking my stacks beside them hoping they'd bite. Used mercs earlier on for xbows and better spears but it's getting expensive.


Question 3:

Kiev just got a Master Merchant guild and Militia Cavalry just became available. Should I bother? Stats are lower than Druzhinas but at half the price. Doubling up on militia cavs give more in aggregate damage ...?


Question 4:

Dismounted Druchima and Boyar Sons cost more than Feudal Knights but much much weaker I believe. Any use for them or should I just stick with Spears as my cannon fodder unit.


Please help ...

using XBAI on VH if that matters in any way.

[Aeratus]

Dismounted Druzhina and Dismounted Boyar Sons have much less upkeep than Dismounted Feudals. So in general, they are cheaper unless you only need them for a few turns.

To deal with dismounted feudals, use Durzhina Cavalry.

[peopl]

Hungary: I couldn't provide a perfect all-in-one army composition. Nevertheless the strength of the Russians resides in their cavalry. That Hungarian army sounds ripe for the picking! They have no Heavy Cavalry (HC) to protect their DFKs so one way to face them on the open field is put your infantry as far back in the field as possible, therefore giving you plenty of time to finish their DFK. Move your Druzhina forward and charge the DFK, preferably from the sides and back in order to reduce casualties, then pull them out as soon as the charge has hit. Rinse and repeat until their infantry are no more. Their HA are pretty good - at least the Hungarian Nobles are, while the Maygar Cavalry are nothing too special. Use your own HA to finish them, or try and run them down with Kazaks and hit them with your Druzhina when you have them pinned. But once you've finished their infantry the HA on their own don't present much of a threat.

Poland: I would employ similar tactics with Poland, hitting their infantry hard with your Druzhina/HC. The less your spear militia engage the better! I don't remember seeing Mounted Xbows often when fighting the Poles, but I remember their biggest strength were their Polish Nobles. Either match them with your own Boyar Sons or try and hit them from a distance with bow-wielding HA.

Now for your questions:

1) It's difficult to give a one size fits all in terms of an army composition but I would focus on your cavalry. Another useful unit the Rus have access to are Woodsmen. They're two handed axemen (and despite the bugs surrounding 2h weapons they're so cheap you can suffer large casualties with them and still not worry too much) plus armour piercing; they won't be able to hold the line but if you're able to charge units from behind or the side they can do some damage. The main draw for them is that they're so cheap you can have plenty at hand and replace them without much of a problem. Please see the below link for some more detailed Russian army compositions.

2) Generally speaking I would steer away from siege warfare as the Russians since their strength lies in their cavalry - this type of fighting tends to negate that strength somewhat (similar to the reasons why people suggest to face the Mongols and even the Timurids inside castle walls). If you lay siege to a settlement belonging to a non-rebel faction I would recommend being patient and waiting it out. Usually they'll send a relief force which you can face on the open field, or you might even take the settlement without so much as a fight.

3) Personally, no. I would have 1 Druzhina over almost any number of Merchant Cav. It depends on your tactics but if you're going to apply what I've suggested above, with HC charging enemy infantry then pulling back and hitting them again then you'll need Druzhina. I'm not sure what the charge bonus for Merchant Cav is but they simply won't do the job.

4) If you can afford the improved infantry then go for it. Russian militia spearmen really aren't up for the challenge of anything except quaking in their boots behind town walls. However I would recommend solely using Dismounted Dvor. If you look at their melee stats they're exactly the same as the Dismounted Druzhina/Dismounted Boyar Sons but enjoy the added benefit of having a bow and arrow! They're a little more expensive but the fact that you can get off a couple shots before you even engage the enemy made it worth it for me. When I completed the Russian Grand Campaign (some while ago!) I exclusively trained Dismounted Dvor as both my archers and heavy infantry. It makes it easier in terms of retraining, plus you can save important florins by not bothering to build higher tier barracks at castles, just focus on the archery line of buildings. Just remember to turn off skirmish mode at the start of every battle!

When I first completed the Russian campaign I found this guide to be absolutely fantastic and I would strongly recommend glancing through it, even if it's just for the army composition:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=259261

[issler]

You're overreacting, Russia is one of the strongest early period factions.

1.Campaign instructions:

a. Your army should be comprised solely of Kazakhs and TWO generals.
a.1. You will suck at sieges, so the key is to always be outnumbered when besieging. This way, they will always sally forth and horse archer tactics will prevail.
a.2. If you have to divide your army in order to be outnumbered, then do so. Keep the rest of your kazakhs with your other general(to keep them from rebelling).

b. Whenever you can, convert conquered settlements into castles, so you can hire Kazakhs.
b.1. Did I mention you should be hiring as many Kazakhs as you can?

c. If you feel your enemy has more archers than you, more firepower, don't fight.

d. If you feel you won't have enough ammo to finish the battle, fight any way. When your ammo is over, withdraw and you won't lose troops.

2.Battle instructions:

a. For 2 units of Kazakhs against any melee foe(cavalry included):
a.1. Get them to follow one of yours, then shoot from behind with the spare unit.
a.2. Kazakhs are the fastest unit in the game, no melee cavalry should be catching them, keep an eye for any mistake.

b. For larger armies with archers/missile cav., do the following(if their cavalry doesn't charge headlong):
b.1. Kill the skirmishers first, trying to shoot from behind while using separated cantabrian circles and loose formation.
b.2. Exhaust their heavier cavalry units, then kill them from behind(you save ammo if they're exhausted).
b.2. Exhaust their melee units, then rest your guys and finish them off from behind using the same tactic.

c. If their cavalry charges right away: Move away from their skirmishers range, and go in different directions for each one of their cavalry units. For each one of theirs, get 2 kazakhs, one to be followed and one to shoot from behind.

d. Keep your general away from the battle, if anyone chases him, withdraw him from the field. He is just there to keep the troops' morale. If he dies you're screwed and your whole campaign is over, so play safe.

e. ALWAYS REMEMBER TO GET YOUR KAZAKHS TO KILL THEIR ARCHERS FIRST, THEN EXHAUST AND KILL THEIR CAVALRY, AND TO AFTERWARDS EXHAUST AND KILL THEIR DISMOUNTED MELEE UNITS, ALWAYS SHOOTING FROM BEHIND. BY STRIKING WHEN THEY'RE WEAK, YOU WILL KILL TWICE AS MUCH, TWICE AS FAST. DON'T FORGET TO EXHAUST THEM, AND TO ALWAYS SHOOT FROM BEHIND.

[Silverheart]

1. My best tip is to use infantry-heavy garrisons, and rely on cavalry for the field.
A one-size-fits-all army as the russians (at an early stage) would need to be cavalry-heavy.
A full stack should be around 6 units of Druzhina, 6 units of Kazaks and footmen consisting of about 4 units Spearmen/Spear militia + 2 units Dismounted Druzhina/Boyar sons + 2 units Peasant Archers/Archer Militia/Dismounted Dvor (preferable).
Outflank the enemy with your cavalry and aim for their general and elite troops from the rear, while your footmen stand in defensive formation to the back - often the enemy chooses to try and engage them first, giving your cavalry all the potential to harass and weaken them one piece at the time.

2. The Russians have good infantry for street-fighting. Both Dismounted Druzhina and Boyar Sons make excellent heavy infantry, and their axes makes them good against heavy troops as well. Use them in large numbers, along with Dismounted Dvor or at least some Peasant Archers.
Alternatively, use armies of 2/3 Missile cavalry and 1/3 Druzhina, and pepper the enemies to destruction when they sally forth.

3. The Cavalry Militia are light cavalry, and should not be used as all-purpose, all-round lancer cavalry like the Druzhinas.
They are good for minor military expeditions, where you need something cheap to run down archers, halt enemy cavalry for the infantry to hack down and take prisoners.
Using them en masse is not preferable over using Druzhinas.
I would advise you to use them if you have some small rebel/poorly defended settlement you want to capture, and just recruit a militia army for the job to save funds - but as I said, the Cavalry Militia are not to be relied on, they are just basic, simple light cavalry.

4. I´d say Dismounted Druzhina/ Boyar Sons are better than dismounted knights, what with their axes really giving them an edge over other heavy infantry.
They are very useful as all-purpose infantry, capable of holding their own in defence as well as making an effective attack force.
They are excellent heavy infantry, among the sturdiest and most reliable in the game, and definitely more useful than Spearmen or Spear Militia.
I still advise you to use the stead-fast Spearmen as well, and use the Dismounted Druzhina/Boyar Sons as elite troops for doing the killing in the front line.

[FootSoldier]

About the Merchant Cavalry - get them for garrison cavalry. They are the same as the Militia Cavalry Russia get's with the Drill Square at Large City Level.

They're only good for chasing routers in big battles, but the free upkeep is cool. It's handy to have a couple in each city in the late game. Otherwise, I agree with Silverheart. Druzhina and Boyar Sons for big battles early and middle. I like the Boyar Sons javelins, and at the end they are the unit to use against Timurid elephants.

In early Russian armies I'd also take the Kazaks. Run them around the back of the enemy army to lower morale and chase routers. They do do damage with missiles too - and they're cheap. Get lots at the start.

At Citadel level you get Dvor Cavalry and Tsar's Guard - far superior. The Cossacks are good too, and I'd have a couple on the team.

Russian armies are about the cavalry, so I'd never try to match the heavy infantry of the Danes, for example. I usually have about half cavalry, and as suggested, stand the infantry way back. Then the Russian missile cavalry do significant damage before the enemy army reaches the Russian line. (Boyar Sons for the anything heavy, like DFK's, and I'll take fire at will off to ensure they use their javelins on the right targets. Kazaks for the ordinary folk).

My balance in Russian forces is usually half cavalry. For Russian Infantry I'd always have a couple of their spearmen, who armour up to better than Merc Spearmen. Dismounted Boyar Sons for Heavy Infantry. Just a couple of both. Of course, you're stuck with Spear Militia and Crossbow Militia early. Remember the Xbow Militia can melee when needed, and the autoresolve loves them.

The best is Dismounted Dvor - fantastic unit, but expensive. I take as many as I can afford. They have brilliant (the best?) damage stats for arrow archers, long range etc., and then in melee they are are 11/16 - same as Dismounted Boyar Sons. They can take a cavalry charge. I have had Dvor charged by Feudal Knights, melee'd them, and the Feudal Knights run away. They beat the Halbrudder in the Teutonic expansion campaign.

[crzyrndm]

The best is Dismounted Dvor - fantastic unit, but expensive. I take as many as I can afford. They have brilliant (the best?) damage stats for arrow archers, long range etc., and then in melee they are are 11/16 - same as Dismounted Boyar Sons..

This unit has to be russia's best kept secret. Great arrow attack, although lacking the ap abilities of longbows, and then the awesome melee with ap axes. One of the best units in the game for besieging, and easily the best for garrison duties (for defensive power anyway. A little too expensive for normal garrisons). A few spears + a couple of these on the walls is almost overkill

[... where did it run?]

Druzhinas, spearman and dismounted druzhinas-boyas are your main strengh (maybe dis dvors later). While Kazkas and Boyars will work for light cavalry duties. You can also counter dis feudals with boyar javs. But as all missile troops they require time to deal formidable damage. And time ussaly means more casualties to your troops.

I would suggest not even bother with HA until you get Dvor cavalry. Kazkas works good only against peasent like troops.

[Blaze of Macedon]

1) Early on mass produce Kazak HA, Boyar sons and Druzhinas. Use the HA on less armoured troops and to harass their archers, move ur jav-cav in position to throw their javs at the back or rear of the more heavily armoured troops and keep the Druzhinas out of the fighting until the very end. Weaken them and then charge, the Boyars are good for melee too. Your main field armies should be pure cav armies like this. Later they are still usefull since they are very easily retrainable.

For a more balanced army later on include Dismounted Boyar Sons (more easily retrainable than Dismounted Druzhinas) for backbone inf and Dismounted Dvor - for me the best archers in the game. DD are just pure badass, 4 of them, 5 DBS, 3 Boyar sons, 3 Kazaks, 2-3 Druzhinas and a general and your set to go... The DD and the DBS are the best in their category that Russia gets through the game so those you will stick with throught the game.

With these armies you could fight the Mogols in open battles and win. So open battles shouldn't be a problem.

Hungary and Poland have simmilar early amry build so micro ur battles, out-produce them, use the terrain, pick ur battles etc. to win against them.

Towards the end you get the option to unleash absolute devastation upon ur enemies - add 3 Cossack musketeers somewhen in there, swap the Kazak HA with Cossack HA, the Druzhinas and Boyar sons with Dvor cav and Tsars guard and game over. Of course this kind of an army is "elite" and will be hard to retrain.

2) Early on it's going to be tough. Just manages as good as you can. Later on you get the DBS and the DD so no probs...

3) I think not. Never bothered with those...

4) Use them. I think i elaborated this under 1) They are ok backbone, have AP attack, good both on the offense and on the defence. Just don't expect wonders your real advantages are your amazing cav and your missle units - DD and Cossack musketeers are probably the best units in their classes in this game - play on that.

Russia was the most fun campaign that i played: slow starter due to weak starting economy, the most bad-ass pure cav armies, devastating at range, fighting the Mongols alone, building my empire around the Baltic, then North Europe... Just great fun! Love em, in MP i have not lost one battles with them in all period battles.