Any plans for expansion?

[mrlakkie]

hi guys, after playing CoW for awhile i got myself all worked up about warhammer again! .
ive done the figures when i was a little younger so i know a bit about the lore and story and i have a natural love for the way the warhammer world works.

but lately i found myself a map of the entire warhammer world, and i never knew it was THAT big, so this could only leave the following question: are there any plans to add new areas to the game, like Lustria, Tilea, Bretonnia, Cathay, Araby, Naggaroth, Ulthuan, Dark lands, Badlands and so on.

this would be awesome and the stuff u guys can work with is also abundant!

- mr. lakkie

[jnecros]

I think COW is damn awesome and the playing area is large enough myself, but look in the sub mod section

[Ozzmosis]

If I remember correctly, Hick and some other team members had created a larger map including more of the warhammer world... They even had previews...
There's also the sundering submod which is about the elven lands.

[mrlakkie]

thx guys, can either of you pass me on a link to the sub-mods forum iam having trouble finding it!
and do u know anything else about hick and the others guys and if they have any place to discuss this topic??

thx in advance

- mr. lakkie

[jnecros]

Sub mods: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1389

Grail Knights/Bretonnia http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=380937

Tomb Kings: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=392314

Dark and High Elves: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=398694

I dont understand the second question you asked, but there is a suggestions thread here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1419 not sure if that helps or not

[mrlakkie]

thx a lot for the detailed info, iam too drunk to check it out now, but i will!!!
the second question was about something Ozzmosis said, about "hicks and his guys"

anyway, many thx, and keep pwning in warhammer, btw, any here collecting games workshop miniatures?

- mr. lakkie

[Ozzmosis]

I'm not sure... There used to be a stickied thread showing previews of a map including ulthuan and other places... they were also recruiting mappers...

[Vasterion]

The mechanics barely support the Mod as it is - for example, the number of Cultures, factions, religions, units, etc. This mod is an extremely in depth focus on a particular event in time, managing an Empire/Kingdom/State during the largest invasion since the invasion of Morkar, slain by Aenarion after his ascension to Phoenix King donkeys ago.

There simply cannot be much more to go on - not to mention that there is very little "canon" work gone into those area's - Tilea, Border Princes, Estalia and Araby are all nearly untouched in lore aside from when they come into conflict with the major races, while the area between the Mountains of Mourn and the Worlds Edge Mountains have little in them aside from the Silk Road, and a couple of Chaos Dwarf Strongholds (meaning they are next to open nothingness aside from Hobgoblin and Black Orc wandering tribes), and Cathay is larger than the entire Old World, Worlds Edge Mountains, Bretonnia, Kislev, and Norsca put together.

At maximum map size, you'll have the same issue of the Vanilla M2TW map because of the whole conglomerate locations of the European-esque factions, while the Eastern Factions have far too much open space and nothing to fill them (due to lack of information in addition to sheer size).

Aside from it not being viable, even were the facilities there to provide for them, the length of time to create the factions, playtesting, balance, and the like would just not be viable. The Real World of Europe etc was far less mutable than the Warhammer equivalent is - just check how rapid the world moves in the last 5-6 years of each army book timeline, and you'll see that there are far too many invasions to adequate balance, and far too many retcons and Deux Ex Machina to make it possible.

Focusing on a specific conflict, such as the Storm of Chaos, or the Sundering, or a Breton crusade in Araby etc however, provides the in-depth localized effects that the team is rightly prized for, thanks to their research etc.

[mrlakkie]

yeah well, apart from it being very hard and time consuming, its still possible, and in my oppinion this team should be able to do it, but they would have to revamp the entire game.
like the engine and the scripts and lots of high-tech stuff, which is understandable. its just that the warhammer world is such a good one for this game, it would be a waste if nothing was done with it.
but i do believe that there can be something like a estalia + tilea invading lustria, like conquistadores, or the elven conflict in naggaroth or araby defending against orcs or whatever, so they take this subject,
and make a stand alone mod out of it, they can work with their current models and files!
but iam just throwing things out there, i think this mod deserves a lot of credit and all i want is to give some input which might or might not have any result.
cheers!

- mr. lakkie

[Pietrak]

the largest invasion since the invasion of Morkar, slain by Aenarion

Morkar was slain by Sigmar, wasn't he?

[Vasterion]

The engine is near to breaking point as it is.

Look at the following;

Empire (multiple Electorate states which fight among themselves as they do currently)
Chaos Warriors (fight among themselves due to the affiliations)
Chaos Daemons (fight among themselves due to the affiliations)
High Elves
Wood Elves
Dark Elves (fight among themselves due to their pledge to Khaine)
Ogres (often fight between themselves due to their tribal allegiances)
Chaos Dwarves (chaos, so often fight each other)
Dwarves (which often war with one another over grudges commited between clans)
Lizardmen
Beastmen (at war with one another)
Bretonnia (with 10? Duchies which are in confrontation with one another)
Skaven (with 13 Major Clans which are in confrontation with one another)
Vampire Counts (with at least 5 Bloodlines which are in confrontation)
Tomb Kings (with at least 8, IIRC, Cities which are in conflict, as well as several dynasties which are in confliect with one another)
Orcs and Goblins (which fight among themselves according to tribal affiliations)

Those are just the standard races, each with an entirely unique culture, and that culture determines appearance of buildings and the like.

Throw in Tilean City States (each as varied and confrontational, if not more, than the Empire), Araby (who has a love hate relationship with the Skaven and the Daemons of the desert known as Djinn), Estalia, the Badlands hobgoblin wandering tribes, the Cathayan cities, Khureshi region, Nipponese Clans, Kislev,

To fully represent the Warhammer World, it's nigh on impossible.

31 Factions barely covers the Empire as it is, and to relegate it to a single politic-less region under the control of single all encompassing Emperor and High Priest (not to mention under a single religion)... Just sours it.

Check out the religions - you're limited to 10 - the Empire's Pantheon has 3 Major Gods - Sigmar, Ulric/Olric (Middenheim), and Taal (Talabecland), there are 4 Chaos Gods, as well as the possibility to worship the pantheon, the High Elven Pantheon has 3 major gods, Asuryan, Isha, and Khaine, while the Dark Elven one in addition to Khaine and Slaanesh also worships Morai-Heg and several other Crone Gods...

Unlike the mostly mono-theistic factions of the Medieval World, where Pagan religions, Orthodox, and Catholicism were easy to define, each faction and sub-faction that relies upon the gods worships them for different reasons, and they are so wildly different that a true to warhammer experience is nigh on impossible.

Like I said, the team has nearly maxed out the scope of the engine at the moment, and expanding it much more would be like spreading too little butter over too little bread.

Want to include Cathay, which Empire Faction should be lost? Want to include Nippon, which Chaos Faction should be lost?

Add to the fact that should the Badlands be included, you've got a gulf as wide as the Empire itself to be crossed by an army with no reason for the AI to do so, due to the poor pathfinding.

I hate to shoot down idea's, but Call of Warhammer IS the Storm of Chaos. If you fancy expanding it to include Asian Factions, such as Nippon or Cathay, if you're willing to make up several factions, you could maybe create a campaign similar to how Kingdoms from M2TW works, for example, the fall of the Great Bastion and the Chaos incursion into the north of Cathay, while Cathay is fighting the Nipponese Invasion, the Hobgoblin raiders, and Ogre Tribes, while Ind attempts to use the migrations of the tribal countries to expand their civilisation, as well as being focused on the takeover of Khureshi lands could be a nice idea - but due to the very little info on that area, you'd have basically Chaos, Ogres, and Goblins attacking Japan, China, India, and Indonesia. Might be fun, but you've got no Empire, limited scope for High Elves and Dark Elves (who due to the really poor way Games Workshop wrote the Storm of Chaos, were merely tacked on Deus Ex Machina), very little chance for Vampires, and even less chance for Dwarves, Tomb Kings, Lizardmen and Wood Elves.

Throwing idea's is all very well and good, but for something so major as an entirely new campaign with scripting to produce the story alike the Storm of Chaos, no-one will take you up if you're not willing to put in the ground work - such as the Map, 3D/2D art, Scripting/Coding (and not just units, the campaign script as well).

[Ultra123]

im sure what could be done instead is a bit like kingdoms, remember we had americas teutonics etc campaigns--> well what could be created is different campaigns centered on different conflicts, al with different maps. ie storm of chaos, the ulthaun conflict, perhaps one on a orc invasion.. etc etc... combined as one download, it would indeed truly represent the world of warhammer, but on a less epic scale.

[Vasterion]

Morkar was slain by Sigmar.

Morkar, First Everchosen of Chaos WAS slain by Aenarion.

[Toho]

Morkar was slain by Sigmar.

Morkar, First Everchosen of Chaos WAS slain by Aenarion.

too bad his son and wife ed the whole thing up and wow you are so informed on the warhammer lore

[Vasterion]

Spoiler for Off Topic: 

To be honest, Morathi and Malekith's background is among the best - Caledor Dragontamer's is annoying in that much like Teclis, so much of his victories are Deus Ex Machina - for example in the Son's of Ellyrion book, Teclis gets nearly killed by the equivalent of a Warhammer Fantasy Suicide Vest wearing elf, and is incapacitated, yet suddenly gets healed by a magical influx then manages to single handedly wipe out the Dark Elf Invasion, he also managed to single handedly wipe out Be'lakor's army, he single handedly routed the Dark Elves on the Finuval Plain, he single handedly destroyed a Greater Daemon with a single spell after his Brother was poisoned etc).

However, Morathi was never plain evil after her rescue - she was simply proud, if manipulative, but all High Elves were/are, and the fact that her son was turned over in favour of Bel'Shanaar for Phoenix King simply because of both father's actions damning one and empowering the other drove her insane. Malekith stayed strong, and soon began the purge of slaying the Cults of Pleasure, with the intention of finishing it with his mother's death. However, she was too strong, and the maternal bond between them gradually turned Malekith into what he became.

People blame Chaos for Driving Malekith insane - more likely, you could go as far back as drawing the Sword of Khaine has caused the Sundering, for should Malekith have been accepted by the Everqueen to become the Phoenix King, then most likely, the Sundering could have been avoided. It was just a chain of events, and hence the Sundering was the most visible effect of the curse that affected the entire Elven Race.

Started playing it, then got more interested in the background than playing it these days. Skaven, Lizardmen, Dark Elves, and High Elves (well, Teclis+Bodyguard) have recently ruined it for me.