RTR VII Feature highlight: Roman Leadership

[Voice of Treason]

...@ Muizer #80...Yes
...For example, I knew nothing of 18th century til CA release Empire.TW...then you get interested, buy books, read wiki etc...you play TW/mods...sometimes learn a bit...
...My Roman history is not as advanced, ( I have the roman offices written in front of me with the year progression CC +5 TM +10 Q +5 A +3 P + 3 C yadiyada) but I find that sometimes I move a FM as an appointment runner to a province...Years later both consuls die of old age...who is next Praetor?...read the traits of all generals...eligible...not eligible anymore...was this...was that...but he has this Ancillary with him because he is carrying that appointment to someone else?...confusion?...confusion?...
...simply by numbering the positions in the unvs.txt it just helped a little easier to see at a glance who has actually progressed to what level...
...Whilst going through all traits or multiple ancillaries I find it is quicker to scan through and recognise the numbers next to the titles...1,2,3,4,5,6...
...was just your idea already simplified from your attached thumbnail (obviously, not in red) to help new converts, especially if you eventually adapt to other factions in future...

[Muizer]

I find it is quicker to scan through and recognise the numbers next to the titles...1,2,3,4,5,6...
...was just your idea already simplified from your attached thumbnail (obviously, not in red) to help new converts, especially if you eventually adapt to other factions in future...

Hmm, yes. It's true that it is preferable if people have to refer to a "rule book" as little as possible. It can't be avoided entirely but, as you say we'll have to think about this if we're going to extend it to other factions, whose hierarchy was less formal, less certain or less well known.

[Voice of Treason]

...No need to reply, just for reference...
...with the exception of cavalry commander, which is ubiquitous, i actually find using your "City" principle of using capital letters of importance for the actual offices aquired works wonders...
...now in the overview scroll i can whip through, see the OFFICES AND THE LEVEL (5) at a glance irrespective of the ancillary carried (which could just be being held, not aquired)...and who are the main "Movers and shakers" near power... (pic)

[Rastlink]

...Why not number the appointments in the export_unvs.txt, ie :

I am trying to implement your change, but I cannot find a file of this name? Do you mean the export_descr_character_traits.txt file?

- Dan

Edit: ah, do you mean the export_VnVs.txt? Seems like it.

[Muizer]

I am trying to implement your change, but I cannot find a file of this name? Do you mean the export_descr_character_traits.txt file?

- Dan

export_VnVs.txt in the "text" folder

[Rastlink]

export_VnVs.txt in the "text" folder

Yup, found it. Thanks

-Dan

[Voice of Treason]

...Can I just double check...Is there only one placement of Praetor at a time?...
...Basically, I have been experimenting (with mod dilettantism) and I changed the thresholds for the trait RomanEligibilty to multiples of 3 ( i’m assuming threshold was the amount of years multiplied by 4 for the turns?)...so the offices appear 1, 12, 24, 36, 48, 60 etc...
...I'm hoping this is giving me a better turnover, offers more freedom and flexibility for a non-linear campaign everytime yet still the roleplay, plus I can accept family members up to 30 (+5 to eligibility + 18 through the ranks) considering life expectancy (ignoring in battle peril is about 60 years old)...
...However, when I move my second eligible Aedilis, to pass over his ancillary and enter Roma with the empty vacancy for Praetor 2...he just gets military tribune....???
...Just to stress, I am no modder and I am still trying to get to grips with this, but I am just wondering if it something I have done, or whether there is only 1 Praetor at a time...
...I hope this makes sense... Many thanks

[Maurits]

You will have a FM eligible for TM without an appointment. The lower appointments will come first, then the higher ones. So transfer the Tribunus Militum to another FM, and just repeat the process until you get your praetor.

[Rastlink]

After playing around a bit, I decided to change the remits of the offices, such that all offices can be in friendly territory. I found it extremely annoying that when moving a questor to a new office, I would need to move him from settlement to settlement to avoid him losing the office before arriving. It was bearable when just in Italy, but I was thinking with dread on the delay sending a governor to Gaul would be.

With this change I can avoid a lot of hazzle, and now I must say that the new system is brilliant. It is a good representation of roman offices, and I am enjoying it

Now I just need to figure out how to grant Tribunes/Praetors a trait allowing them to keep their office in enemy territory if they are near/in same province/in same army as a consul.. but that will take some time to figure out, as I have no experience modding this game. I don't even know if it is possible with the engine.

But thank you for a good system. Especially since we can all tailor them to our own wants and desires to make it perfect

- Dan

[Maurits]

I usually find it no problem when an aedilis/quaestor/TM looses his appointment while travelling - when they've spent one turn in the settlement they're being send to they will regain it anyway.

[Rastlink]

I usually find it no problem when an aedilis/quaestor/TM looses his appointment while travelling - when they've spent one turn in the settlement they're being send to they will regain it anyway.

I mostly find it a problem because:

a) the appointment might be given to another eligible person in the meantime, which means I must then spend a turn moving that person out of a city to loose it, so that it might be given back to the one I intended. Not hard, but more 'hazzle'.

b) When he arrives, the tax income / public order of the settlement can go to until he's spend at least a turn there. It might not be that big of a problem but I had it happen at a very inopportune time, where it did some damage. You can circumvent it by letting him spent a turn in the nearest minor province, but again - more 'hazzle'.

But it is a matter of personal preference. I'm just happy I was able to perfect the system according to my own wants

[Muizer]

a) the appointment might be given to another eligible person in the meantime, which means I must then spend a turn moving that person out of a city to loose it, so that it might be given back to the one I intended. Not hard, but more 'hazzle'.

Not unless you give it to someone else! Apart from the "entry" of the ancillary into your faction (In Rome, to an eligible FM), you are in full control of the appointments.

[Rastlink]

Not unless you give it to someone else! Apart from the "entry" of the ancillary into your faction (In Rome, to an eligible FM), you are in full control of the appointments.

Ah, yes of course. Error on my part. But I must admit that I find the system much more enjoyable now, so I will let it stay that way.

- Dan

[Iskandar]

Having played a Roman campaign for about 20 years (just started the 1st Punic War), I have a few suggestions regarding the Leadership System.

-since the RegionsOwnedRepublic trait of the faction leader already has a description, why not put in it the total number of offices (by appointment) in Cursus Honorum corresponding to the territorial extent of the Republic. Example: "The Republic has more than 20 regions. The total offices in Cursus Honorum number: (e.g.) 2 Consuls, 2 Praetors, 2 Aedils, 3 Quaestors, 6 Tribunes". This of course presupposes that different levels of the same trait can have different descriptions. If that's not the case, perhaps split the trait into a few different ones, each with its own description (which again presupposes that you are not limited by the total number of traits in the game). The idea is to know (immediately in-game, without looking up external sources) how many Praetors, e.g., can you have at a certain level of territory. It will make managing offices much easier.

- I don't know which trigger gets tested first, but I already had a situation where a Quaestor became eligble for Aedile, yet when I removed his appointment, he got the Tribune ancillary on the next turn. This means either he got tested for Tribune first and there was an available position, or there were no availble offices for Aediles and Quaestors. If the former is the case, perhaps you should change it, so the higher tier of offices gets tested/populated (if there is an applicable candidate) first. If its the latter, then having an in-game info (as I suggested above) on how many offices are available might help the player not make an unnecessary trip to Roma.

- Having only the two Consuls operating outside Republican territory would severely limit the Roman offensive options. Perhaps allow the Praetors to wage short offensive campaigns (i.e. start reducing his bonuses from the office after a certain number of turns outside Roman territory. IIRC, EB had a similar "supply system" which affected morale, so it should be doable). It's not entirely implausible, especially for players who try to expand historically, to have multiple campaigns going on at the same time in Illyricum/Greece/Macedon, Hispania, Galia Transpadana/Transalpina and Carthago (although you'd have to have quite the broad economic shoulders to support that number of troops)

- Give the young FMs under 21 a huge movement bonus, so they can be used for transferring offices. Otherwise it sometimes takes more than 2 years (especially without using ships with high command, i.e. extra movement) for a FM to go to Roma, get promoted and get back/get to his new assignment. It's kinda appointing an office in absentia. This way you'd have to transport your more valuable FMs to Roma (and thus lose their beneficial effects on the province they're in) only after you get to higher level of territorial expansion and more office slots open up.

Hope this gives the team a few ideas to toy with and perfect the Leadership System.

[El_Saracen]

years [/I](especially without using ships with high command, i.e. extra movement) for a FM to go to Roma, get promoted and get back/get to his new assignment. It's kinda appointing an office in absentia. This way you'd have to transport your more valuable FMs to Roma (and thus lose their beneficial effects on the province they're in) only after you get to higher level of territorial expansion and more office slots open up.

I like this idea I'm waiting for the patch before I start my epic Rome campaign. I have been reading this thread in preparation.

[Maurits]

I quite like it, too. I'm working on a Censor trait which might be added as an 'exit rank' to the system, and will seriously consider giving such a movement bonus to cavalry commanders.

[megas scipio]

Hello. THANK YOU FOR THIS AWESOME MOD! Great work!

I'm a big Roman history nerd and Army dude who would like to help in developing the business requirements for the changes made to the excellent Cursus Honorum system for this mod. I actually developed a system in RTR Platinum that was very similar based on character traits and turns elapsed (no ancillaries as I did not know how to create them).

I'm in the process of researching my historical sources (Polybius, Livy, etc.) and hopefully writing up useful suggestions. Is there a point of contact whom I can collaborate with in order to contribute to this effort?

Please let me know,

Dave

P.S. My condolences to all those gamers who knew Tony83 well. He seemed like a real good dude. Very patient and respectful in communicating with others concerning this mod. His leadership of this mod team has been a real gift to others. Thank you Tony, rest in peace.

[MasterOfThessus]

PM Muizer, he's the one in charge

[Mark88fan]

3) rename descr_strat_NO_RLS.txt to descr_strat.txt (remember to always keep back-ups of files you overwrite or rename)

There is an existing descr_strat.txt file in the folder. Do I delete the original?

[Muizer]

It's always a good idea to keep a back-up, though IIRC there's already one included in the mod under the title decsr_strat_RLS? Better check.