RTR VII Feature highlight: Economic buildings

[Muizer]

Economic activity in RTR VII
In this thread we will explain the exploitation of natural resources and their processing into finished goods in RTR VII.

Eight economic specialisations
In RTR VII you will encounter eight economic specialistaions. All of these bring direct financial benefits by boosting tax and trade income. In addition, each provides bonuses related specifically to the type of natural resource it is based on.

Mines and blacksmiths
This specialisation concerns the group of resources collectively labeled non- precious metals and provides the benefits that Rome Total War players will remember from the blacksmith building tree.

Gold and silver mines and goldsmiths
This specialisation concerns precious metals and provides hard cash. However it also reduces the cost and build times of religious buildings.

Fishing grounds and fishmongers
This specialisation concerns the bounties of the sea. Fish is an important foodstuff. Exploiting this resource will contribute to your population’s health.

Quarries and stonemasons.
This specialisation represents the processing of earth and rock as a building material. Its distinctive benefit is providing substantial construction cost and time benefits for defensive and religious buildings.

Logging camps and carpenters
This specialisation represents the processing of wood, giving construction time and cost reductions for building in general and defensive structures in particular. Missile troops benefit from the skills acquired by carpenters.

Livestock pastures and taylors:
This specialisation represents the backbone of the economy in many pre-industrial societies: the raising of livestock and processing of milk, meat, wool, leather and bone. As a source of food and clothing it provides bonuses to health, but also and armour.

Grain farms and millers:
This specialisation represents the other major source sustenance: agriculture. Its bonuses are in fact the same as the ones you remember from the unmodded game: raising the farming level.

Luxury resources and goods
This specialisation of industry encompasses all luxury articles and provides no benefits at all except a boost to your tax income!

　
Developing a specialisation of the economy
The way economic buildings work was inspired by city building games. Raw materials are obtained by the exploitation of locally available natural resources. Alternatively, if a particular resource is not available locally, you can to import it. Once you have obtained a raw material, you will be able to construct a workshop to process it into a finished good.

A region will offer between two and five raw materials. Resource icons on the campaign map give an indication which economic specialisationes can be constructed from locally available natural resources. Raw materials not available locally can be imported.

Limitations
In theory, each region can develop any economic specialisation, but there are limitations:
Firstly, while you can construct any economic specialisation, you won’t be able to construct all of them. There are just five "slots" available in each settlement, three of them based on local resources, two on imported ones. You will have to choose which five economic specialisations to develop and which three to neglect.
Secondly, the five economic "slots" aren’t all available to you at the lowest settlement level, but come available one or two at a time as your settlement grows. So you will also have to decide which of your five specialisations to construct first, and which to leave for later.

Variable length of workshop trees
If you decide to build a particular specialisation late in the game, your workshops won’t have to go through all stages of upgrades. That way you can catch up rapidly with the development of specialisations that were started before. It will cost more to develop a whole new trade that way than to develop an older one though.

Example [reference to screenshot]

In the town of UTICA, a grey icon appears in the settlement panel at the start of the second turn [1.1]. At the same time, the construction menu gives you four options:

• develop luxury resources [1.2]
• develop quarries [1.3]
• develop fishing grounds [1.4]
• develop grain farm [1.5]

These are your choices for the first "economic slot", the development of a local resource.

In this exampe, we have chosen to develop the grain farms. The moment you make a choice, the other alternatives disappear from the construction menu.
　
Once the grain farm has been constructed [2.1], a new grey icon will appear in the settlement panel [2.2] designating the manufactory that can now be constructed. The manufactory, in this case a miller, is available in the construction menu [2.3].
　
Once constructed, the coloured miller icon [3.1] replaces the grey one in the settlement panel.

[MasterOfThessus]

Stickied

[Sphere]

Two things seem a little odd to me.

One is not being able to use all your native resources if you have more than 3. If a city has the "capacity" (workforce, space, organization, infrastructure, demand etc.) to sustain 5 industries why can't they all be supplied by the native resources? Why must 2 be supplied by imports? It is not very logical.

The other is that importing only has a single upfront cost as it really is just a building, which after completion is essentially the same as a native resource. It really should have some continual cost (to reflect the transportation and mark-up of traders) which makes the industry slightly less profitable than one using native resources.

Just my two cents.

[Muizer]

Two things seem a little odd to me.

One is not being able to use all your native resources if you have more than 3. If a city has the "capacity" (workforce, space, organization, infrastructure, demand etc.) to sustain 5 industries why can't they all be supplied by the native resources?

I think it is pretty much a fact that not all natural resources in a region that can in theory be developed there are developed at any time. Think of it as building up a local tradition.

The other is that importing only has a single upfront cost as it really is just a building, which after completion is essentially the same as a native resource. It really should have some continual cost (to reflect the transportation and mark-up of traders) which makes the industry slightly less profitable than one using native resources.

I think this is accounted for actually. Import generates less revenue than the exploitation of local resources.

[Sphere]

I think it is pretty much a fact that not all natural resources in a region that can in theory be developed there are developed at any time. Think of it as building up a local tradition.

Not satisfied with the explanation, but I understand how much more straight forward the 3 and 2 system is to implement technically. It is just a little odd to think you could have gold & silver lying around your province but not be able to use it even though your city has "developed" enough to support two more industries. In any event it is just a small gripe in an overall clever system.

I think this is accounted for actually. Import generates less revenue than the exploitation of local resources

Is this new in VII? I don't remember it in FOE, or at least it was never explicit.

[Muizer]

Not satisfied with the explanation, but I understand how much more straight forward the 3 and 2 system is to implement technically. It is just a little odd to think you could have gold & silver lying around your province but not be able to use it even though your city has "developed" enough to support two more industries. In any event it is just a small gripe in an overall clever system.

Heh, fair enough! It's true that technical constraints forced us to be more schematic than we'd like, ideally.

Is this new in VII? I don't remember it in FOE, or at least it was never explicit.

You know I wouldn't be able to tell. A lot of these things were revisited in the balancing stage so it could well be new, but somehow I don't think it is.

What is definitely true is that not all effects of buildings are mentioned explicitly. For instance, the stone and wood industry give quite a few bonuses that the game does not display.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Not satisfied with the explanation, but I understand how much more straight forward the 3 and 2 system is to implement technically. It is just a little odd to think you could have gold & silver lying around your province but not be able to use it even though your city has "developed" enough to support two more industries. In any event it is just a small gripe in an overall clever system.

Well hardcoded issue might be the influential reason too.. IIRC RTW/BI only allows up to 64 (?) building trees. It's also prossibly due to 'balancing' issue where one can't make one region more richer than others even historically the region have all the materials available. It'll make the faction that have the region at start will have the upper hand every time.

[evb]

-If "Imports" are to be real they need to be imported from somewhere, right? So, why not add it into the "trade agreements" diplomacy section? That way it will be much more worth while to make and maintain strong ties (and not go betraying one another). Also- once something happens (and I mean anything to prevent the products from getting there), the building is temporarily neutralized.
-Can you do any sort of "native specialization" bonus for doing this for more than X years?
-How about a "Trade upgrade"- exactly like a farming upgrade bonus for population growth, but with trade buildings?
-Why not have temporary markets too? In ancient Rome they were a big chunk of trade, Especially in rural areas. You (the player) can decide how often and for how much time, and the local trade building can be a bonus on top of that.
-Can you have an ability to raid on trade routs, to protect them or to tax them? And if by way of land- why not by sea too?
-Can you expand on crime/prevention in the game?

[Bernardius]

very well indeed, i get it!

[-Stormrage-]

How do we import a particular resourse, i dont think the game lets you choose. Maybe just form a trade pact with a nation ?

[Finn]

You need to construct an import building in order attain a resource that you don't have in your region.

[-Stormrage-]

Thank you that makes sense , just one question,

what if i was at war with all the factions and i have a metal import building will i get metal?

Basically does it have anything to do with your trade pacts?

[Finn]

As far as I am aware diplomatic relations do not matter whether you can import raw materials. Remember though, there are only five slots available for economic buildings per settlement.

[-Stormrage-]

I feel that is alot 5 of 8. i can get 2 cities and have all the buildings. Wouldnt it be better if say each city can only have 1 economic building and then 2 when it gets big?

[XonE:32]

Hey guys great job on RTR VII. I'm suspending my FOE campaign and starting as Rome on RTR VII, but I have dumb question regarding the economic buildings and development.

In FOE the major settlements all had the grey building cards that you had to select/build first. For instance the grey "trade route" card was always there. My RTR VII doesn't have those. I'm just wondering if that is correct or is my install buggered. I'm assuming it's correct to not have them and you've just done economic development a bit different for VII than it was in FOE. Just wanted to confirm before I start playing a campaign in case the install is borked. How does one establish a trade route in VII?

Thanx in advance for any help

[Muizer]

Hey guys great job on RTR VII. I'm suspending my FOE campaign and starting as Rome on RTR VII, but I have dumb question regarding the economic buildings and development.

In FOE the major settlements all had the grey building cards that you had to select/build first. For instance the grey "trade route" card was always there. My RTR VII doesn't have those. I'm just wondering if that is correct or is my install buggered. I'm assuming it's correct to not have them and you've just done economic development a bit different for VII than it was in FOE. Just wanted to confirm before I start playing a campaign in case the install is borked. How does one establish a trade route in VII?

Thanx in advance for any help

Hello XonE,

In VII we have included a supporting script to take care of constructing the right base building (the grey icon) when your settlement meets the requirements for a new economic development.

[DeWitt8]

I can confirm that imported wares don't give all the boni native ressources do. For example the grain import does not give farming boni when the mill gets constructed.

A question though: What happens if by accident I destroy the grey base building? Can I rebuild it somehow?

[XonE:32]

Hello XonE,

In VII we have included a supporting script to take care of constructing the right base building (the grey icon) when your settlement meets the requirements for a new economic development.

Awesome. I played a few years and then started to notice the buildings I recognized from FOE popping up automatically in certain regions/large settlements, but thank you for confirming I'm not starting a campaign on a borked install. That's a hooj peace O mind you've just given me.

Cheerz

[LennyLionheart]

Hey,

and how do I know the exact effects of the benefits? I mean, for example if I choose the luxury industry over something else (for example a carpenter), where can I see that how much money I get for not having the building time reduction, but only cash benefits? And how do I know that how many turns are the building time reductions? So where can I find all the details about the buildings's effects?

Thanks
Lenny

[JCB206]

Trying to work out the economy part of RTR VII...playing as Carthage...

Great mod and don't want money to get where the game is easy but man I am having a tough time. I have cut my garrisons to the min in Africa, went on the defensive in Spain after taking Carthago Nova (wanted the reforms) and attacked in Sicily. The year is 264 BC. I was building reform troops to replace my hoplites in spain and sicily and wanted to put them in garrisons in africa. Pretty cheap unit (i think) so I thought it would work out. Almost lost my cities in Spain a couple of times so had to strip the garrisons and attack. Doing well and have a good army in Spain and Sicily. But I haven't been able to build a single extra fleet, just using and retraining the two I got. Took a major region and some minor in Spain and am just down to Messene in Sicily. But my economy was boggin down...

So I stopped building units for the last two years and mainly fighting with what I have and a couple retrains (the spainish tribe I am fighting has sent many armies of 3000+ against me and am holding. The halting builds on reform infantry and trying to build my economy seems to be going well but it takes many years. Putting 15k a year into the economy and city building.

Now, for some reason, no metal imports. Cant find one metal place in my lands, which I find hard to believe and now imports have stopped. Nothing happened that I can tell...still at war with the same people as before, have many allies in north spain and gaul with trade alliances. I have not been offered to build one import building and now the ones I captured have stopped bringing in supplies? Is this just a normal shortage, like in real life, or what? I am working hard on building my economy and since I have no troops in Africa, four bandit armies are running free.

Siga and Carthago Nova are real problems...I have the policy buildings for 10 years or so but yet when i pull the governer out or troops to rush to another sector or raise taxes above low, they riot. Going from 165+ to 40. Both populations are under 6k with very little squalor. Siga is showing a HUGE penalty with distance to capital, when cities farther away are fine with it. Tried destroying any kind of building that might cause the also large culture unrest but can't destroy any more...alot of my cities have policy buildings from the previous regimes that I can't destroy but the other cities aren't really having these problems.

If anyone can give me a place to look or advice on some of these issues, that would be great. The game is great, the battles epic, the reform troops very cool though wish I could build them outside of Carthage and Spain. Noticed the most recent major city I took in Spain (after putting the policy buildings in place) couldn't build reform infantry. Oh, why can't I build the same policy buildings in every city? There are from what I can tell, three-four types, and am only given one or two options? Why not just one or MAYBE two? Like citizen and conquered peoples?

Sorry for the long post...loving the game and hoping for a little help. BTW as far as economy, I accept no generals for adoption. I just wait for the children to grow up. Only one or two so far and lots more than that have died due to old age. Really in need of governers but I like it this way. So my economy is not overburdened by general salaries. Corruption is pretty high but not sure how else to effect that.

Thanks guys and girls.