Q: Lothlorien seaguard and dwarven tunnels

[dantaeuk]

So I was playing with some lothlorien seaguard and was happy to see the have both bows along with spears, so I assumed when that cavalry charge come in they would switch out for some happy ganking... but no..

Is there any way to make them switch out to spears? would taking fire at will off and halting them make them equip spears or is thier a sub mod that can do this?

Also I noticed the dwarves had taken a very very notherly setlement along the cliffs away from thier starting location very early on, is there a way to travel underground through tunnels or something as dwarves?

thanks!

[Toho]

no there is no way to switch between weapons but there are tricks like reducing the ammo of your sea guard in the EDU and increasing their damage so they do the same amount of damage that they would have done, this also makes the game more interesting.
im working on my own EDU and adding multiple changes like these to make the units more interesting and...'fresh' if you will.

[dantaeuk]

no there is no way to switch between weapons but there are tricks like reducing the ammo of your sea guard in the EDU and increasing their damage so they do the same amount of damage that they would have done, this also makes the game more interesting.
im working on my own EDU and adding multiple changes like these to make the units more interesting and...'fresh' if you will.

Thanks but I dont think thats gunna solve what I want, i need the switch so they can take cav charges and go again for archer fire, eleves have expensive and less troops so i think its all fair plus i play on high dificulty so i have no quams with them being overpowerd from using the weapons they have

real shame though

any sub mod that allows calavry to dis mount?

[Vice]

Thanks but I dont think thats gunna solve what I want, i need the switch so they can take cav charges and go again for archer fire, eleves have expensive and less troops so i think its all fair plus i play on high dificulty so i have no quams with them being overpowerd from using the weapons they have

real shame though

any sub mod that allows calavry to dis mount?

TW games could not dismount from cav till Empire came out and even then only some units could dismount...Thankfully with Shogun 2 all cav can dismount and I suspect in all future games that will be the case as well...

So yeah no dismount or what not for any games before Empire to my knowledge...

[Vasterion]

TW games could not dismount from cav till Empire came out and even then only some units could dismount...Thankfully with Shogun 2 all cav can dismount and I suspect in all future games that will be the case as well...

So yeah no dismount or what not for any games before Empire to my knowledge...

Play Medieval Total War, and tell me which units cannot dismount.

But yes, in this mod, and those based on M2TW and Kingdoms, there's no way of forcing the switch, aside from telling them to charge enemies, but then they lose the benefits of phalanx.

Instead of that, it's simply a matter of keeping them protected. After all, they can counter charge, whereas standard Archers cannot.

Whereas other armies like Empire have to choose between Defensive Spears, and Archers, and combine the two, you have 3 options - providing 2/3rds coverage rather than 50% coverage.

Don't understand? Say you have 18 Units in an army, in Empire, 9 Archers and 9 Spearmen. In an Asur army, you have 6 Archers, 6 Seaguard, and 6 Spears. This means that in effect, you have 12 Spearmen, and 12 Archers for the High Elves, and depending on the enemies weakness (i.e Marauder Cavalry are weak to the spears, while Marauders are weak to archers), you can adapt more adequately.

They are especially useful in city defence for wearing down the enemy while you keep your better infantry and archers protected from ranged damage, and getting stuck due to the horrendous Total War pathfinding.

[Toho]

switching weapons and unmounting units while in game is impossible, the game is not capable of these actions

[Bregil]

Also I noticed the dwarves had taken a very very notherly setlement along the cliffs away from thier starting location very early on, is there a way to travel underground through tunnels or something as dwarves?

thanks!

It seems this question was missed so I'll try to answer it. There is no way to implement tunnels in TW so the mod team did the next best thing. They placed obscure paths in the mountains, mostly in between the various dwarf holds (both current and those that start controlled by other factions.) These paths have very few entry points so they really are like tunnels in that respect.
Hope that helps.

[Elitewolf]

This might be a dumb question, but couldn't you give the seaguard the pikewall ability? And then if you switched to pikewall, they'd all pull out their spears?

[Vasterion]

No, because it requires the pikes to be the primary weapon, and you have to have missile weapons as the primary weapon, or else they are null and void.

If you want to try a different type of unit, set them to 2 ammo, short range (as in javelin range), and give them high damage and AP/BP, that way they can support spearmen that much more effectively, while providing a useful unit similar to how Kvassnics and Miners work.

At the end of the day, they're not meant, I don't think, to be a new elite murdering unit. They are mariners and a true standing army, yes, but there is a sincere difference between the Swordmasters and the Sea Guard.

Also, giving them such hugely powerful abilities would mean that there's no skill in using them. Just let them set themselves up, and watch the enemy break. Pikes are deadly enough as they are already without such additional boosts as having a ranged attack prior.

Having spears as a Cavalry flanking Counter charge is more than adequate.

For example,



The key is the following

Purple is the Enemy.
Blue is friendly Cavalry (in this instance, as you're mostly defensive, Ellyrian Cavalry are excellent for this role, but Chariots, Princes, and Silver Helms will work as well, although less effectively unless against a heavy armour/weak versus Cavalry army).
Red is friendly Spears/Supporting melee units (Phoenix Guard will work well, but as they take the brunt of the fighting, Spears are easily replaceable).
Yellow is Friendly archers (Archers work perfectly fine here, although if you can afford them, Shadow Warriors extra range and ability to hide will murder).
Green is flanking units (Sea Guard for the purposes of this, but high damage output infantry units such as White Lions and Swordmasters can help here).
Your general should not have such a prominent part in this battle, other than when the battle is won - High Chivalry helps rather than Dread.

Move cavalry (cavalry archers) forward to block of enemy flankers, and to harrass enemy fast movers/flankers/archers, then have them fall back, and shield your flanks. Let the Sea Guard and Archers focus fire on the enemies lightest infantry to reduce their numbers although fall easily to your Spears, will have the downfall of reducing morale and stamina before the big boys hit your centre.
The Spears as ever hold the line.

When the charge comes, have your Spears on Guard mode so they don't move forward, then rotate the sea guard to the enemies flank, and shoot down. When morale begins to waver, or you've broken up the formation, tell your Sea Guard and Flanking units to charge down, as their melee is more devastating for morale in the flank as they cannot use their shields.

Meanwhile, have the cavalry prepare to counter enemy horse or mop up fleeing units to stop them rallying. If they're horse archers, they should also use the rest of their ammo on the General's unit to attempt to bring him down.

You can get away against armies like Chaos, Orcs, and Undead with 200 casualties to in excess of 3000 with practise, although these are against obviously range weak factions. Against large artillery armies and strong versus range armies (like Dwarves and Cavalry heavy empire), you're going to struggle. The best bit is no need for slow artillery in field armies, and due to their mostly militia style armies, they are fairly easily replaceable for elves at the least.

[Ultra123]

guys give over eh, and anyway a question for toho and those generally modding their EDUs,

-can i change the ammo that my elves carry, like 50% more, if so how?
- can i make my spear units, including the seaguard have more survivability? should it be done by adding hitpoints or defence? if so.. how?
-if i edit my EDU wil i have to begin a new campaign? .... dont worry i know how to do that one .. lol....

[Toho]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=221093
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=221100

these should help i think

[Ultra123]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=221093
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=221100

these should help i think

toho couple things these threads didnt help me with is should i increase the defence or hitpoints on the seaguard to make them survive a bit more?, these threads explain how to do it, not whats best in this situation.

also still does editing the EDU have any effect on saved games? and will i hav to start a new campaign for them to take effect

[Leonidas480bc]

toho couple things these threads didnt help me with is should i increase the defence or hitpoints on the seaguard to make them survive a bit more?, these threads explain how to do it, not whats best in this situation.

also still does editing the EDU have any effect on saved games? and will i hav to start a new campaign for them to take effect

Editing the EDU is save game compatible. Now as to what stats to increase that is a personal thing, what role will they have in your army? You could add shield_wall ability or more defense, it is up to you.

[Venatio]

Maybe with the Lothlorien Seaguard you could make them Impetuous, Less Disciplined (Increase Morale to compensate), and Have a larger charge distance, so that when they enemy is close enough, they will automatically switch weapons and charge. Atleast that is a hypothetical possibility, though it wont make them brace for cavalry charges either way.

Maybe there is a way to make their bows Alternate weapons? That way you have to manually have them equip them with alt weapon, but they naturally revert to Spears when you have them stop firing.

[Rakki Raiden]

Haven't played Call of Warhammer in a while now, (got back into age of reckoning) but if i recall they use their bows but when you want them to use their melee hold alt and click attack and they charge with melee (using spear and shields).

Im thinking of Lorien Seaguard, may be different.

[~Beren~]

Haven't played Call of Warhammer in a while now, (got back into age of reckoning) but if i recall they use their bows but when you want them to use their melee hold alt and click attack and they charge with melee (using spear and shields).

Im thinking of Lorien Seaguard, may be different.

Hmm, interesting. I haven't thought of doing that myself. I always kept my seaguards in reserve so that they could deplete their arrows. Perhaps now... hmm, yes.

BTW, are they not called "Lothern" Seaguards and not "Lothlorien?" However, I may have missed something during my absence since I've heard a couple of users call them that...

[Ultra123]

you are right rakki, but the op is asking essentially, if the spears can be made primary weapon, so that he doesnt have to micro manage with the alt clicking on what will most likely be about 5 or so different units.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

Guys, keep it clean. The next post that flames any other user will be reported and you'll have the Admins and Tribunal to deal with.

[Toho]

well i guess they are applying the same rules Canada to Canadian. same thing with lothern but it kind of sounds dumb imo

[Ultra123]

me too beren, i usually have a front line of base spear units maybe 4, and about 6 seaguard in second line 4 base archer units in line 3 and fill remaining slots with general and more elite units, works well, by the time seaguard finish arrows 50% enemy dead minimum, and about that time the sper units in the front are most likely getting tired so a charge from the seaguard (all 6 of them!) usually works miracles.