Crossbows useless in siege defence?

[Maty]

Hello everybody,

When I am defending my castles/cities in siege battle I always put missile units on walls. Bows are working great but crossbows?

When I have unit of 120 men using crossbows only 15-30 are shooting. Rest just stand there and waiting. It's annoying and it could turn tide of battle on my side.

Got any solution?

Putting them on the ground behind spearmen works but i would like to use them on the walls.

Thanks for replies

[Delvecchio1975]

on walls they only work when they can fire to the inside at units that broke through the gate. even if you stretch them out to 1 line deep they never manage to get more than 1 round of bolts of before the enemy is up the ladders. pathetic, but it's a bug no mod can get around ...

[Basileus Antiochus]

Yes, they are useless for shooting targets outside the wall.... I think you can use them to shoot enemy on the wall too, those right next to your crossbows

[Delvecchio1975]

good point, they can be quite lethal shooting at enemy units on the wall. make sure they're on guard stance, so they don't engage. you might need to click several times on the enemy unit for them not to engage, but the ensuing bloodbath is worth it. usually the enemy unit just panicks ...

[Hypomanic Crusader]

I had two units of crossbows take down a unit of dismounted feudal knights and they are better at doing this than say two units of say Pasive spearmen. If they come up a siege tower or whatever have both units deployed to either side of the tower not in front and start firing away. If they get into combat just click the bow icon again and instead of fighting they'll get their crossbows out again and you'll be able to take the knights / whatever unit down.

[Serbian Hussar]

You can alter some files and change the angle in wich crossbowmen are shooting. In vanilla they could lob shots like bowmen. But thats changed in SS, and they can shoot only straight now. Not sure what files though... descr_projectile, that's the one

[Andytheplatypus]

You can alter some files and change the angle in wich crossbowmen are shooting. In vanilla they could lob shots like bowmen. But thats changed in SS, and they can shoot only straight now. Not sure what files though... descr_projectile, that's the one

I think it should be implemented as a fix in the next SS to correct the problem of crossbowmen on the walls

[Ichon]

I think it should be implemented as a fix in the next SS to correct the problem of crossbowmen on the walls

There isn't much that can be done as I understand it. Walls are hardcoded so the only chance is to change trajectory of crossbows but then they will act like arrows in other battles as well. We could create 2 types of crossbows... with militia crossbows being made for the garrison and having arrow like trajectory but AI probably wouldn't know what to do and it would be alot of trouble for a minor issue since overall sieges already had huge problems.

[bɑne]

I think it should be implemented as a fix in the next SS to correct the problem of crossbowmen on the walls

That fix turns crossbowmen into archers. We can just as well remove crossbowmen for ap archers if we did that. You can still use them, put them on walls firing into the courtyard once the wall is breached, have them fire from other walls to the contested one, line them up in the streets...

[popovic]

That fix turns crossbowmen into archers. We can just as well remove crossbowmen for ap archers if we did that. You can still use them, put them on walls firing into the courtyard once the wall is breached, have them fire from other walls to the contested one, line them up in the streets...

After I myself figured out that fix, I tried it, and then switched back. Reasoning? Something along the lines what Bane said. It just makes xbows incredibly powerful, and makes an already easy game even easier.

Same would apply for SS spearmen and Shield Wall ability. I have added that ability to all spearmen that had Schiltrom ability in SS. I still believe that change is realistical .If units were trained enough to form schiltrom, they should be trained enough to form Shield Wall, which is a simpler formation, and has been in use longer than Schiltrom.

However the problem was that this broke SS balance. In SS, cavalry is the king. As it should be, and as it was historicaly. However, I have found out that even mediocre (at best) spearmen when placed in Shield Wall are able to withstand and repell charges of heavy cavalry, even if it is slightly higher quality then they are.

So to sum it up: SS (with RR/RC) has been carefully balanced. I would suggest trying to adapt to that balance, and mod in changes only if you still really don`t like it.

[Andytheplatypus]

That fix turns crossbowmen into archers. We can just as well remove crossbowmen for ap archers if we did that. You can still use them, put them on walls firing into the courtyard once the wall is breached, have them fire from other walls to the contested one, line them up in the streets...

I'm inclined to think that something needs to be done about it. Doesn't make sense that the main defensive missile unit for settlements can't even shoot out of the settlement.

[Maty]

I'm inclined to think that something needs to be done about it. Doesn't make sense that the main defensive missile unit for settlements can't even shoot out of the settlement.

That's exactly what I mean.

Tactic with guard mode on is great idea when infantry is attacking your walls, but when enemy have a lot of cavalry like Fatimids the only posibility how to use crossbows with full force is to place them on the ground behind main defense army. They cannot even shoot properly at the enemy army inside your settlement from the walls.

[merocaine]

Stick them in a block on the wall in guard mode at the other end of the wall from where the enemy will put there ladders. when the enemy gain the wall take off fire at will and click on the enemy unit, when they start firing toggle fire at will back to on. When the enemy attempt to engage in melee the first couple of crossbow men will draw there swords, there rest will continue to fire, only the most fanatical and heavily armored troops can survive this treatment.

[Bund weicher Birnen]

When a siegetower dock on your wall put light infantry in the direction where the enemy goes and in the opponent direction put the crossbows. Let them fire at the enemies and you don't get any trouble with battle on walls.

[buncheesy]

Not sure whether I am qualified to give advice yet but...

I found crossbows to be useless when defending the wall for sure but if you primarily want to block the gate and have a spare crossbow unit to man the walls (in addition to the necessary infantry for defending against ladders and towers) then they are still best on the wall.

they still shoot well at a distance and get quite a high kill ratio if you rout attacking infantry at the gate which then reform and come back for a second go. So not only are they there to ensure oil gets poured on the attackers (when you dont want to use more 'valuable' units for the purpose), they also whittle them away when they rout and refrom. These extra kills have made the difference for me in a recent close seige battle against superior numbers.

Delvecchio1975 and merocaine - thanks for the advice about guard mode so you can keep shooting. Nice to know

[Delvecchio1975]

Delvecchio1975 and merocaine - thanks for the advice about guard mode so you can keep shooting. Nice to know

On guard mode only the front line who physically get attacked will engage, the rest will not rush in. It's possible that you have to order the unit again to fire, maybe even twice or three times, but because only the front line will be engaged, you'll have most of your unit available to fire away ...

[Liandro]

How about making the walls be considered land instead or would that mess up siege equipment from docking?

[Caesar Clivus]

How about making the walls be considered land instead or would that mess up siege equipment from docking?

I'm sure it'd mess things up

[Ferdiad]

I'm sure it'd mess things up

Im sure it would be funny though.

[bɑne]

From what I remember from the last discussion then there are about 3 guys on twc with the knowhow to even start editing battlements etc. If it is that important to you I suggest going with the crossbowarcher approach.